tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24619806846817732942024-02-20T10:41:52.101-08:00American Film Market 2011 unofficial semi-livebloggingOne guy's unofficial notes about the conference series, and other content of interest, at American Film Market 2011 (Nov. 2-9)Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-69189180859462852912011-11-08T17:06:00.001-08:002011-11-08T17:07:22.573-08:00Tuesday: Distribution conference part 2: "Monetizing New Global Platforms"<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-size:100%;" >American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 8, 2011 9 AM: Distribution Conference notes part 2, "Monetizing New Global Platforms"<br />Notes by B. Hahne<br /><br />The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 5 of a 5-day series.<br /><br />Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /><br />These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne. Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.<br /><br />Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!" There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A. They also probably contain errors. I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.<br /><br />-----------------<br /><br />Moderator: Brad Kembel, Executive VP for International Distribution, Summit Entertainment.<br /><br />Panel:<br />- Erik Brannon, Analyst, IHS, Screendigest<br />- Dan Cohen, Executive VP for Pay TV and Interactive Media for Disney/ABC Domestic TV<br />- Elisabeth Costa de Beauregard Rose, Executive VP for International Sales, Lakeshore Entertainment<br />- Jon Ferro, SVP for Program Sales, EntertainmentOne<br /><br />--------------------------------------<br /><br />Intros:<br />Brad: we're the studio that does Twilight.<br />Dan: In English, I license the TV shows that ABC makes and some of Disney's content for subscription, digital, etc.<br />Elis: We finance and produce films.<br />Jon: Licensing TV rights.<br /><br />Brad: This panel is about digital future, or maybe it's the "digital now" - mostly VOD here. Complicated new business model and the marketplace is a mess. We've asked Erik to give us a 10-minute primer.<br /><br />Erik:<br />- IPTV: TV content delivered through the internet<br />- Pay TV on demand aka VOD: transactional rental of movies via closed networks<br />- EST, electronic sellthru: sales via open internet [I think he means like buying a digital download - he doesn't mean buying a DVD online.]<br />- Digital rental: rental via open internet e.g. Xbox and Amazon<br />- Digital subscription: CinemaNow, StarzPlay, uses open internet<br /><br />"Pipelines": a content distribution method including IPTV or cable or open internet or satellite.<br />"Platforms": device-specific reference such as an ipad or PC or IPTV.<br />"Cloud-based": like UltraViolet: content you purchased delivered any time to any device of yours.<br /><br />We predict $48B consumer spend on home video in 2011. 2007 was $54.6B. So slight declines, but not the end of the industry. Physical disc sales and rentals will remain predominant form of film consumption in near future.<br /><br />There are challenges everywhere:<br />- Physical: pricing and piracy<br />- PayTV and VOD: pricing and sticker shock<br />- Internet-based solutions: interoperability<br /><br />"Redbox society": consumers expect to be able to rent for very low price, very close to home.<br />Internet solutions not compatible with each other, e.g. iTunes content can't play on your TV unless you have an Apple TV. [Yes, Apple does closed ecosystems buddy, that's how they play, it sucks.]<br /><br />Physical: 83% of all home video transactions in 2011.<br />All electronic transactions growing to 25% by 2015.<br />iTunes, Xbox, and PS3 stores dominate for internet sales.<br /><br />Pricing is hindering internet and payTV pipelines.<br />Sticker shock: cost to rent an SD title is $5 on your pay TV system. So 4 titles is $20.<br />Internet EST: interoperability is really curtailing EST.<br /><br />South Korea: Government mandated broadband upgrades for the whole country, and people shifted away from buying HD content (disks), now they pirate it. [Shifting towards EST here?]<br /><br />Moving towards:<br />- Less sellthru, more rental.<br />- Less total revenue for the business. We see 4% declines YoY.<br />- More electronic, less physical<br /><br />Social media can offer a stopgap measure.<br /><br />-----------------------------<br />Brad: Streaming / VOD, please comment.<br /><br />Jon: Netflix has proved to be a good rerelase platform for old content. Library revenue matters for a studio - it's an underlying economic engine. The CW did a deal with Netflix. At the highest level, maybe this is the same thing as the consumer going to the video store. With video store you'd often rent 3 titles and only watch one. With VOD you make the buy decision on the spot, you don't rent 3 titles like that. And people can also walk away from the VOD web page, but they don't usually walk away from the bricks-and-mortar store emptyhanded.<br /><br />Dan: VOD used to be pay-per-view and started at a fixed time. VOD you can watch any time + rewind. For our catalog, we always keep it out there where people can rent it via VOD. I do all digital licensing for Disney movies, i.e. iTunes downloads. We've had more people get copies via Digital Copy / Digital Download (where you buy the DVD in the store and it comes with a coupon for digital copy) than people who are using EST. Netflix has changed the TV landscape in the past few years - they're a new platform for us.<br /><br />Dan: I think the pie is growing, that Erik's opening remarks aren't right. Shift from ownership to rental, shift from physical to digital. VOD is a big growth business for us. But the VOD isn't offsetting loss of DVD sales, so for movies it's true the pie is NOT growing. Disney sold Miramax and reduce the number of films we make, focus on big franchise movies for us. <br /><br />Elis: I deal heavily with non-US, not US. Fall in DVD revenues is significant in Europe, Asia, etc. The drops are much more than in the US, which is weird since there's not a proliferation of big brand-name VOD companies. We have independent VOD players though, smaller. The revenue isn't there yet. Yes, it's an alternate form of revenue but the levels aren't there. Big impact of piracy. Korea, piracy very rampant, you're lucky if you can sell 500 to 2000 units. Maybe Disney can get 10K sales, I don't know. DVD sales decimated by piracy. The one upside of piracy is that people are learning how to download films on the internet - it builds awareness, it's training people to get used to downloading films, no more discs. Next re-education is to teach people that they need to PAY for that content. In the future, VOD has big potential.<br /><br />Jon: Indy perspective is different. We have Margin Call and Trespass doing day-and-date with theatrical, price $7 to $10 on VOD, slightly higher pricepoint. Those films are changing the economic model. DVD component might not be as important. Blockbuster rental situation is changing - if Bbuster had died it would have hurt direct-to-DVD industry. VOD isn't helping direct-to-video industry much due to movie saturation, so everybody earns less per film. Margin Call and Trespass did OK due to the theatrical releases.<br /><br />Dan: Re "Redbox World": the major studios have treated them differently. Warner + Universal are windowing Redbox by 28 days. Paramount + Sony did rev-share deals with Rbox. I have an out put deal with Starz and I was crying about Redbox and Overture said "we love it, we get more distribution through Rbox than through traditional means." For an indep film, Rbox might be a great thing, or a similar kiosk player in an international location. Treat them as part of the sales ecosystem for your movie.<br /><br />Brad: Elis, you and I represent the high end of AFM sellers here, it's a well-understood model, we sell our own films and other people's films, foreign presales, and you use those presales to get financing to make your movie. We're removed from this new revenue since we sell to the distributors, we don't do VOD directly. This is 1st year that I'm hearing $100K+ VOD reported from our distributors, no longer $10K's, but not millions yet either.<br /><br />Elis: DVD has fallen so much in many territories that VOD doesn't work as "additional" financing, we're just trying to get back to where we were. The thing with VOD is you can micro-target the customer, you know who they are. I think that in the future this approach will pull a lot of ad dollars away from traditional TV due to the ability to micro-target the customer. That's 10-15 years out, but it will take away from free TV and pay TV revenues.<br /><br />Brad: US exploitation / rights management issues, please comment.<br /><br />Jon: Difficult to manage these days, they're complex. Take a TV series - who has the right to put something on iTunes? Who has the right to put it on Xbox? [I think his point is that the internet is doing its thing by blurring the concept of national boundaries.] These are turning into complex negotiations because they impact the basic value of the series to the studio. We're now holding back rights, or charging more for full rights. Negotiated country by country. Rights management systems are a pain point also - there are solutions out there but they're expensive.<br /><br />Dan: There's also clearance issues. Sometimes your music isn't cleared for putting the stuff on the internet. We spend a lot of time on rights + clearances. Disney sold the Miramax library earlier this year -- some of that is governed by a Starz output deal from 1999! The buyer is starting to distribute through Lions Gate but there are there governing rules from 1999 when most of the technology didn't exist. It all had to be interpreted + negotiated. And Netflix wasn't doing pay TV back when we negotiated some of these deals.<br /><br />Another example: TV show airs on ABC, then it's on iTunes the next day, what do we do with Hulu, what about Hulu+, what do we do for NetFlix? Right now we don't give it to NetFlix the next day. VOD: movies are different results. Cars2: VOD same day as DVD. Pirates 4: windowed for VOD, not same-day.<br /><br />Brad: What's the future of some of the big players like Google, Amazon? Amazon bought LoveFilm in the UK but didn't rebrand it.<br /><br />Jon: Google + Youtube are huge but they have a lot to prove. Youtube hasn't yet proved that they're efficient at delivering audience for premium content. They're great for viral video, 20M hits on some viral thing, but not efficient at selling VOD. We're watching them closely, partnered for VOD, using them for anti-piracy, monetizing clips on Youtube, like if a user makes a clip with one of our TV shows, there's a revenue share. If one of those clips goes viral and get 10M views, we get some of the ad money. Youtube has to convince people who have been watching for free to start either watching massive amounts of ads, OR pay for the program. How do you convince a Youtube person to pay $4 to consume a product when they used to get stuff for free? That's a big jump for the consumer. Youtube has good management and good engineering, but the engineering is difficult to make its way through right now. 5 years from now they could become the equivalent of Comcast, it depends on who has the rights. If ESPN glues itself to the satellite distributors, Google probably can't get the rights. But for NFL you can watch those on your Playstation now. The cable operators are looking 10 years out and knowing it will be a big fight for the consumer dollar.<br /><br />Elis: How will consumers find what they're looking for, how do they even know what they're looking for?<br /><br />Jon: Netflix and Youtube aren't programmers. They're using a different algorithm. But we're reliant on "programming" for people to discover our content. Example: Comcast, we have a deal and maybe we want to be on The Barker channel. But Netflix + Youtube have been anti-program in the past -- "if you like product X then you might like product Y". If Google isn't going to promote our content then it falls to us at Reliant to market the content more ourselves, which changes the relationship to our broadcaster.<br /><br />Dan: I handle VOD and e-sellthrough. Youtube has been modest in its success for me so far. They launched a small store last year and I'm OK with that. Our first movie deal was with Xbox 5 years ago. My guy came in and said "we're going to offer the movie on Xbox" and I said "huh, Xbox is a game console, say what?" Xbox has been good at the technology: you can watch it on any of their screens, and also doing good things with discovery. You're going to see some voice-activated discovery coming out soon, and Kinect. If you can speak "pirates of the Caribbean" and everything related to that movie comes up, that's great for us. Also these companies are becoming global players: iTunes, Xbox, more. So for Disney we have to coordinate a lot - my Xbox guy will want to do a deal in Japan, and that's not my territory.<br /><br />Brad: Elis, can you see "rights for Google" being sold separately in the future?<br /><br />Elis: Not really. I think there will be less ad revenue for TV in 10 years. For next 5-10 years we can do [legal] holdbacks. NetFlix was trying to launch in Spain but recently put that on hold due to recent NetFlix issues. This was a big hit to us, they were going to do a lot in Spain, there's no competition for pay TV and Netflix was going to compete, so our distributors were actually getting negotiating power since the monopoly was about to not be a monopoly. So once the major players go internationally there might be more leverage [for some players]. But we won't be carving out special revenues very much.<br /><br />Dan: Consumer electronics companies are starting to pay attention to content now too - Samsung etc, they put NetFlix onto their TVs. But the CE firms are starting to look at their own content also. Anecdotally, I have a lot of people say "yes I have netFlix" and I say where, and they say "it's on my TV" - NetFlix has been really smart about getting their application onto all of these devices, and the CE firms are thinking "well, maybe we should have our own movie store online."<br /><br />Brad: microbudget, low budget, can you sell your product directly on the internet, cut out the distributors, everybody on the panel?<br /><br />Jon: Difficult to believe you can earn back your production budget by selling on the internet today, if you spend $100K to millions, we've never seen anybody make that kind of money [by selling on the internet]. iTunes doesn't want any more deals now, they want to deal with aggregators. NetFlix has been pretty good about sharing the money, but NetFlix distribution won't cover your production costs, and NetFlix is going to start pulling the money back in. People with a film need to look at all the opportunities: do you do theatrical, VOD, go directly to Comcast, something else? You need expertise. What are the Netflix windowing rules? You need somebody who knows that.<br /><br />Brad: Jon + Dan created new platforms: Epix, and FearNet through Lions Gate. Please talk about complications in creating platforms etc.<br /><br />Dan: We launched Disney Family Movies a few years ago. We took an opportunity to release some older titles on VOD: Dumbo, the original Alice in Wonderland. Made it available just for 1 month via Comcast VOD, and they took the top slots. So we created an SVOD (streaming VOD) service, subscription-based, monthly fee. We have to constantly market this to overcome churn, but it's revenue, it's growing. Consumers do like subscriptions - this is something that works well for NetFlix. Cable operators not good at selling transactions but they know how to sell subscriptions.<br /><br />Jon: FearNet was for horror films, but not the greatest advertising platform obviously. Did a partnership with Sony which also has a good horror library. Build an ad-supported VOD platform. We wanted dynamic ad insertion, which hasn't been available through Comcast. FearNet relaunched as a linear channel - like you break up the movie into TV chunks [and show ads like commercial breaks?]<br /><br />Epix was Paramount, MGM, Lions Gate, all finding their output deals expired at the same time. Realized that they'd have more market power if they worked together.<br /><br /><br />Brad: About the "digital file owned in a cloud locker", please comment.<br /><br />Dan: Will be a few years before consumers get that and can use it effectively. It's about interoperability. If I buy a DVD, I can watch that anywhere. With digital, that doesn't happen. But if I buy it digitally, I should be able to watch it anywhere - that's the goal of UltraViolet. Consumers have had storage issues, so the cloud stuff helps. Apple hasn't launched its cloud movie product yet, there are licensing issues WRT output deals that will get resolved.<br /><br />Apple has dominated the E-sellthru business so far, but if it stays that way it's not good for the industry. We need more stores AND interoperability.<br /><br />Brad: Why is UltraViolet attached to the sale of a physical DVD?<br />Dan: We're not part of UltraViolet so I can't speak for them. You could in theory put in a piece of paper with a code, but our marketing people believe that the consumer wants a physical disk - we sell "E-copies" which are just "digital copies" and we could just put in a slip of paper, but right now that's not what we do.<br /><br />Dan: We do our deals nation by nation. With iTunes we have an overarching agreement on ground rules, but still negotiate territory by territory.<br /><br />Jon: Amazon has done well selling books digitally, consumers do get it.<br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Q&A<br /><br />Q: Re windows, do we the filmmakers have anything to say about them?<br /><br />Elis: If you want to be involved in the process you can, we give you your options.<br /><br />Brad: But frankly you want us to do this for you.<br /><br />Elis: Right, there's a lot of product out there and if you're slow, the buyers will just move on to some other product.<br /><br /><br />Q: Re social media and targeting, for independent distribution models, can that approach work?<br />Elis: I think so, there are fan bases on the internet. Youtube, Fbook, if you get enough views it can take off.<br /><br />Brad: Yes but you have the discoverability problem, how do you drive eyeballs to your film?<br /><br />Jon: There are firms starting to look at this, I haven't seen anybody succeed well, but people are looking at the question of low-cost and social media to reach niche audiences.<br /><br />Elis: There are a lot of internet talk show hosts out there who have >1M subscribers each, and it's growing.<br /><br /><br />Q: I can imagine VOD displacing everything. What will that do to film budgets + distribution?<br /><br />Elis: I don't think that will happen, movie theaters aren't going away, which is good since if theaters go away it hurts the industry. DVD will go away, very small in the future, like LPs.<br /><br />Q: So won't that impact budgets?<br />Elis: Yes, maybe positive, maybe negative.<br />Jon: VOD has better margins.<br /><br />Dan: I'm the digital guy at Disney. The physical DVD business is still enormous and will be big for at least 10 more years. So don't forget that there will be a lot of DVDs sold.<br /><br /><br />Q: Re data cap [Comcast stuff], this is impacting cloud model, what can you/we do?<br />[Nobody on the panel is savvy in this area.]<br /><br />Dan: There's more competition today and there's a desire to sell bundles. Comcast wants to sell you a bundle including voice and internet. What you're raising is a big issue - it's not what we on the panel do, though.<br /><br /><br />Q: Re VOD, can that help short film business? Short films become more popular?<br /><br />Elis: Large demand for short films over the inet - see Youtube. In TV that hasn't worked, the advertising deals haven't worked out well<br /><br />Q: But could it become transactional?<br /><br />Elis: Advertising. [No panel support for transactional revenue model for short film.] You can get awareness, use it for marketing.<br /><br />Dan: For Tron, and I Am #4, we made the first 10 minutes for free on demand. A lot of people sampled this content and we got a lot of rental from these.<br /><br /><br />Q: How can I protect against consumers recutting my film?<br /><br />Dan: We don't allow that, and in our deal with Amazon we don't allow them to allow the customer to do that. We're just barely now getting the idea that people might want to do chat around the movie.<br /><br />Elis: Our agreements are that people can't air in a non-linear format. The only cutting you get is for censorship reasons.<br /><br />Q: Virtual worlds, virtual environments?<br /><br />Jon: You could do avatars, Sony is sort of in this space, Fbook has been seen as being a way to do this, but not taking off right now.<br /><br /><br />Q: Re piracy, how much is it impacting the bottom line and what resources are being put into defense?<br /><br />Elis: Used to sell 2x or 3x as many DVDs as theatrical. DVD still OK in Australia but sales still down. Lots of distribution companies went out of business, though QwikFlix has started in AU recently.<br /><br />Q: What's the safest form of protecting the content?<br /><br />Elis: There isn't. There are firms that will do takedown notices for you.<br /><br />Brad: There's a huge industry around this: MPAA, AFM, many players working the piracy issue. But international is UP across the board, up 20%/year overall, multiplex buildouts happening. [Really?]<br /><br /><br />Q: All this streaming - shouldn't the film industry be getting a cut of data streaming revenues? We should get a cut of the cable revenues etc.<br /><br />Dan: In the early days, Comcast etc. said "why should we allow internet VOD, we have our own VOD service already, maybe we'll block that content". Thankfully better business heads prevailed, Comcast is starting to say maybe I don't care if my customer buys from iTunes.<br /><br /><br />Q: About 3D, how will that impact bandwidth issues etc?<br /><br />Jon: It doubles the file size, one for each eye, it's not as bad as SD to HD transition. 3D demands a fully-engaged experience - is that how you watch movies? Most people don't watch that way, they're getting up, moving around, talking to people in the room. Sometimes 3D will be a great experience but I don't think it will become the norm.<br /><br />Brad: Can stay as a novelty in theaters since the screens and gear are there. International was booming, but starting to wane now. Will probably be specialized, like Imax movies, you go pay more for a specialty experience.<br /><br /><br />Q: If you have $500K marketing budget in the US, how are you allocating for theatrical vs. VOD?<br />Elis: Depends on the film, the genre, the audience, the demographic. If you're going online, who is the online community.<br /><br />Q: Is there a minimal spend in the VOD arena? [He really seems to mean "what does my internet advertising budget look like for a small indy film?]<br />Jon: I've seen success with $0 and with well under $500K.<br /><br /><br />Q: Do you envision in the future that projects will be driven by content, not by A-list stars?<br />Brad: No, star power will still matter.<br />Elis: But concepts matter, ultimately it's about the script, your foundation, the story, most important thing. You can do well even without a star, but everything else has to come together.<br /><br /><br /></span>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-14611893476113192822011-11-08T17:04:00.000-08:002011-11-08T17:05:50.951-08:00Tuesday: Distribution conference part 1: "Limited and Specialty Releases"<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> <w:validateagainstschemas/> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:donotpromoteqf/> <w:lidthemeother>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:lidthemeasian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables/> <w:snaptogridincell/> <w:wraptextwithpunct/> <w:useasianbreakrules/> 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mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 8, 2011 9 AM: Distribution Conference notes part 1, "Limited and Specialty Releases"<br />Notes by B. Hahne<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 5 of a 5-day series.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!"<span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A.<span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Moderator: Steve Gaydos, Executive Editor, Variety, who is "stuck in traffic" as of 9:27 AM.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Panel: </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David Fenkel, President, Oscilloscope Labs, NY indep film distributor.<span style=""> </span><br />Susan Jackson, President + Co-Founder, Freestyle Releasing<br />Charlotte Mickie, Executive VP, Entertainment One<br />Tom Quinn, Co-President of New Label, The Weinstein Company</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------------------------------</span><br /></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText">[Panel starts out at 9:20 AM doing self-intros since the moderator isn't here.]</p><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We want to control our accounting, programming, marketing, "beginning and end of the whole distribution process for filmmakers".<span style=""> </span>We also have our own DVD label.<span style=""> </span>Documentaries, foreign-language films.<span style=""> </span>Find films we're passionate about and then try to figure out how to make money on those.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: "Service theatrical company": producers come to us with P&A money - we're like a mini-studio.<span style=""> </span>Just started Freestyle Digital Media., a service, which will complement their theatrical events with VOD.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: Entertainment One distributes in Canada, AU, UK, US.<span style=""> </span>Produce and sell for TV.<span style=""> </span>Manufacture DVDs in Canada.<span style=""> </span>What I do is sell feature films internationally to distribution companies.<span style=""> </span>Some docs.<span style=""> </span>Genre films, arthouse films, larger films which have stars.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: At Weinstein for 2 months. <span style=""> </span>Co-president of a new label at Weinstein: multi-platform slate.<span style=""> </span>Previously at Magnolia Pictures as SVP and Head of Acquisitions.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: A filmmaker said "I'd really like people to SEE my film, can I just put it up on my website?"<span style=""> </span>And I said no, you need a distributor and VOD deals.<span style=""> </span>But for those of you on the panel, can you explain how the VOD thing works?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: There's a misconception that VOD is magic and you just do it and money starts growing.<span style=""> </span>Many VOD platforms - think of them as theater owners.<span style=""> </span>What do you want from a theater owner?<span style=""> </span>You want your poster out front, you want your trailer playing in the theater.<span style=""> </span>You can put your film onto VOD but if nobody knows it's there, without promotion, it's amazingly invisible, nobody will find it.<span style=""> </span>But if you do it correctly then you get access to 65M customers.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: Do they need an agent?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: They need to go through a gatekeeper.<span style=""> </span>I do have friends who got their film onto iTunes themselves, low-cost things that cost them $50K, but it was a lot of work.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: Lots of work to be done to exploit an iTunes release.<span style=""> </span>Maybe you need college screenings or non-theatrical - get exposure elsewhere OFF of VOD and off of iTunes.<span style=""> </span>If cast is low-end and you have no exposure, you don't want to just put it up on iTunes to see what happens.<span style=""> </span>Invest in some sort of distribution platform.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Or name your film "Sex and Zen" like somebody did.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Still need to reach the consumer to let them know your film is available.<span style=""> </span>But VOD can be more cost-effective.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">[Panel moderator Steve Gaydos shows up]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Claim from a friend: "Overall business for independents is down by 75% compared to 5 years ago".<span style=""> </span>Please comment.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Things have changed a lot multiple times in the past 5 years.<span style=""> </span>In Magnolia our projections were off by 90% in some areas.<span style=""> </span>We moved to day-and-date distribution to bring back the business.<span style=""> </span>Last 10 years of box office in our space: number of films has doubled while the total number of indy films making a reasonable return had stayed flat, and while advertising costs had doubled.<span style=""> </span>It wasn't working out well.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Lots of confusion about VOD numbers and what "VOD" is, even from experts.<span style=""> </span>What drives VOD success?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Be earlier in the alphabet.<span style=""> </span>[I.e. she means if the title starts with "A", I guess]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: There can be a pop value based on title or cast, but playability does matter.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: How do you define "playability"?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: [People say] "I like the movie"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: you can get good word of mouth on movies that are hard to market but very playable.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: If you get your poster up on iTunes and have a strong 1-2 weeks then it feeds on itself.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Each online VOD store is different: Xbox vs. Comcast vs. etc.<span style=""> </span>I agree there's not enough info, but in 2 years we'll probably have more data.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: I have trouble finding distributors for various films that have played well at film festivals, particularly midwestern [she said "heartland"] festivals.<span style=""> </span>Is VOD an opportunity here?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: Hm, well maybe.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Is there good news in the industry?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: In the indy business we can move faster, the studios are slower.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: The independents are now taking over the space occupied by the middle, the mini-majors.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Somebody comes to you with a film that hasn't been part of a bidding war, and the film has value.<span style=""> </span>What misconceptions do they bring with that film when they talk to you?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Usually it's that the cast is going to support the movie [i.e. that the cast is going to help you with publicity].<span style=""> </span>I'd say you should all put indentured servitude clauses into your contracts to make your cast help you market the movie.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Can you get word of mouth on films today?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: Sure, but might not be theatrical.<span style=""> </span>Sometimes that does happen, e.g. Black Swan.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: You need to talk about age range.<span style=""> </span>WOM I think of myself + my parents [older], "viral" I think a younger age range.<span style=""> </span>If you can appeal to both audiences then that's where WOM and "viral" meet, e.g. Let the Right One In.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Can you only spot it in advance?<span style=""> </span>I was at a midnight screening of Midnight in Paris and had a sense of WOM growing in that theater.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: Sure we "sense" that a lot, but we're often wrong.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Are you seeing lessons from different countries as you distribute films?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: US is far ahead of any other country we work with.<span style=""> </span>VOD is nothing in Australia, very small in Europe, and in Canada there are some market restrictions about doing day-and-date.<span style=""> </span>So non-US doesn't have much to say to the US side right now.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Any types of films that are doing better?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: It's not the films that I have, but endeavor films: Formula 1 racing, boxing, ballet. </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Small film doing a platform release in NY.<span style=""> </span>What are the rules for a NY release?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We have films where we don't believe theatrical is a good idea.<span style=""> </span>There are theatres in downtown NY which have cultivated their audience and if the film is a good fit then that's OK.<span style=""> </span>But not always the right thing.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: We have movies that we only release regionally and nobody in the "traditional" world would even know we released them - African-American, or faith-based, and we never go to NY for those.<span style=""> </span>If you open in NY then you have to pay for a 4-wall which is expensive.<span style=""> </span>But some of the output deals we have REQUIRE opening in NY.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: If you pick up a film that's very marketable and you know that the NY Times is going to kill it in the reviews, then you don't go to NY.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: What are your competitors doing that are good ideas?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Troll Hunter.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Why?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Very unique film, blockbuster in Norway, I saw it in Austin.<span style=""> </span>Sold out around the world in 15 days just based on the trailer.<span style=""> </span>Brought it to AFM and sold it out - Universal took a big piece.<span style=""> </span>We had previously released Let the Right One In head-to-head with Twilight, which you'd think would be a stupid idea, but we know that every review of Twilight would also mention Let the Right One In.<span style=""> </span>VOD and DVD don't always work out - we had a film do $5M box office and the VOD and DVD numbers are horrible.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Why is that?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Because my parents just figured out recently that you can rent DVDs via mail, and they don't understand VOD, but they know where the movie theater is.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: So if your demographic is older, you put your energy where that demographic is.<span style=""> </span>[duh]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: And over 50% of that film's revenue was made in NY.<span style=""> </span>So sometimes you go to NY for the revenue.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: There are specialty movies, some do huge numbers on DVD, some do large box office.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: My biggest DVD title last year was made for $50K, no stars, nobody has ever heard of it, my wife told me not to buy it because she hated it, and it addressed an audience that doesn't normally get a movie made for them.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: We had one film do 4x on DVD what it did in the box office.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: Winter's Bone, played in NY and in smaller markets.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: That was a word of mouth situation.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: How did the numbers play out?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: $6M box office and then they got a bunch of Oscars.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: How do you decide how much P&A to invest, $1M or $500K or whatever?<span style=""> </span>How do you know when to "up your bet" and spend more on the marketing budget?<span style=""> </span>Since these days $1M box office is considered good.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: We have output deals that require certain numbers of screens and certain amounts of spend [so that sets a floor in many cases.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: OK well, are there still gamblers out there who will bet more on P&A spend?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We only take a small number of films for theatrical each year.<span style=""> </span>Maybe 1 per quarter.<span style=""> </span>At festivals our method is very simple, we look for the best film at the festival, and we hope it has a decent/known cast.<span style=""> </span>We're looking for something we can get into Walmart.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: There's still a market for westerns in the US</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Yes, westerns still do well on DVD in the US.<span style=""> </span>Not elsewhere, but yes in US.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Is there a consensus about what DVD sales are compared to what DVD sales used to be?<span style=""> </span>Are we repeating the music industry story with album sales?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Bigger movies with names are still selling, A and A- stars.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: For the smaller DVD title, that's a very dangerous business.<span style=""> </span>But there's a good import genre business: Troll Hunter etc.<span style=""> </span>Non-fiction smaller titles, art film, those are dying.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q&A</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I just finished a documentary, how can I contact people on the panel or people like you?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: An intro is best.<span style=""> </span>Or a succinct email that explains what you're doing.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We look at every film that goes to SxSW and Sundance.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: I'm looking for very commercial films, not docs.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What elements do you look for that help you to move the product?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: The filmmakers partner with us in our case.<span style=""> </span>We want the cast to show up [at events, showings] and do Q&A.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Distribution with you folks AND the producer wanting to do self-distribution in smaller markets - can that work?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We don't do many split-rights deals like that.<span style=""> </span>Harder for us to get behind a film when we're splitting up digital rights, or regions.<span style=""> </span>If the filmmakers want to be part of the promotion process that's fine, like Buck had all these Fbook friends before the movie launched, and the filmmaker started that.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I have a movie and we split the rights, international vs. domestic who is also handling VOD / online.<span style=""> </span>We were warned against doing theatrical since it might screw us on TV.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: That's French TV, that's your problem.<span style=""> </span>It's about how likely it is that your film will want to air on French commercial TV.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: In France they try to protect all the windows and there's a rule that says if the film is distributed theatrically in country of origin, then it MUST have a French theatrical release before it can go to French TV.<span style=""> </span>Though there are some workarounds.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: So it depends on your film - if unlikely to go onto French TV anyway then who cares.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Most of us don't have Natalie Portman so we can't do Black Swan.<span style=""> </span>For a pitch of a project, what elements do you care about?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We care about finished films.<span style=""> </span>Most important thing is the trailer to us.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: I do pick up scripts.<span style=""> </span>I don't know how much a bunch of business analysis stuff surrounding a script will help me -- maybe for a niche demographic.<span style=""> </span>But for international release I'm more concerned about the quality of the script.<span style=""> </span>And I'd prefer if there's already a director on board, and I care about that director, and I care about the cast.<span style=""> </span>I.e. I care about the creative elements not the business elements [at the script stage].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I made a documentary and got into some boutique theaters and just signed with a NYC theater.<span style=""> </span>Can I use this to talk to foreign markets now?<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: If the reason you did well in the US is US-centric then not necessarily.<span style=""> </span>But it depends a lot on the movie.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: If this was through Aaron Hill then you have a story right there.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Re US DVDs.<span style=""> </span>Filmmakers who don't get distribution, they go out on DVD, but Baker & Taylor and others won't deal with the indy filmmaker directly.<span style=""> </span>They always send me to a particular aggregator, the same company, same guy at Victory Multimedia.<span style=""> </span>[Nobody on the panel has heard of Victory Multimedia.]<span style=""> </span>I did sign with them and I advise the audience not to.<span style=""> </span>What would you recommend to indy filmmakers to get past these gatekeepers?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: It's a tricky business.<span style=""> </span>You need to choose a reputable company, like Image, DVD machines, that have relationships with Baker & Taylor etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: E1 is in that business [that's her].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Do US audiences like dubbed or subbed?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">A: Dubbing sucks in US.<span style=""> </span>For first window release, no.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: How often does the filmmaker bring their own P&A in deals with you?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: That is my business, I'm a P&A investor.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We don't do that much though we're open to it.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: So the filmmaker doesn't have to bring that?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: It's an advantage.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: General idea is that for your $500K film, you should have $100K in that budget for P&A.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Exit strategy, is it good if the filmmaker has thought of this?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: I'd be happy if the filmmaker just had some decent still photographs.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: Or just get the deliverables right.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: Look around the industry, unit publicity is really important yet very rare in indy film business.<span style=""> </span>If you get ONE striking still photo from your film, Variety will run it.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: About deliverables.<span style=""> </span>For US vs. foreign these days you often end up making 2 different deliverables:<span style=""> </span>DCP vs. HD.<span style=""> </span>Expensive.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: Is digital a win?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Yes, it's a win to not have to be on 35mm film.<span style=""> </span>But... at festivals this makes it difficult to import 35mm - the US theaters are so upgraded that they can't play 35mm film now.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: You have to decide if you're going to cut a 35mm version of the trailer, that's very expensive.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: General advice is if you have any question or budget issues about your deliverables, you have a problem.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: Music clearance is also a killer.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Films successful in a certain market like W. Africa, has nothing to offer in the US, is that of interest to you on the panel?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: That can be interesting to me, if it was very successful in its country of origin, but at the end of the day we do the same US analysis.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Do you offer up-front fees when acquiring?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Yes.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: About this, "Welcome to the Sticks" did very well in France, beat Titanic.<span style=""> </span>IFC bought it but never released it in the US.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Why not?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Steve: It's really local.<span style=""> </span>Local success.<span style=""> </span>A lot of European filmmakers think "my film did really well in Holland, so now I'm going to get a lot of money!" and they're wrong.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">David: We get pitched a lot of documentaries and my pet peeve is the pitch "there are 10M wrestlers in the US, if we get 1% of that market we'll make all this money!"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: Right, that formulaic assumption.<span style=""> </span>Bowling movie: we figured out too late that although there are a lot of bowlers in the US, they don't like documentaries.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: This is back to the business plan - in some sports or hobbies nobody goes to see movies, and in others, everybody goes.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What works within each genre?<span style=""> </span>[That's not a distribution question].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: Most of the people up here on the panel like sophisticated films, but stupid films can sell well too.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tom: All of the films I've bought that turned out successful were films that nobody else was bidding on, so I don't know.<span style=""> </span>Let the Right One In, nobody else wanted that yet it did really well.<span style=""> </span>On the other hand I paid a lot of money for Signal, and that lost a lot of money.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I have a western set in Germany, will that work?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Charlotte: If you have a great western it could work in Europe.<span style=""> </span>And Germans like westerns.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-81555661960896434422011-11-08T17:01:00.000-08:002011-11-08T17:03:04.378-08:00Monday: Production Conference part 2: "Agents and Packaging"<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> 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<w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="33" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Book Title"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="37" name="Bibliography"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="39" qformat="true" name="TOC Heading"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 7, 2011 11 AM: Production Conference notes part 2, "Agents and Packaging"<br />Notes by B. Hahne</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 4 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!"<span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A.<span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------------------------------<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Moderator:<span style=""> </span>Paul Hertzberg, President/CEO, CineTel Films.<span style=""> </span>Paul is also IFTA chair (!)</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Panelists:<br />Jay Cohen, Head of Packaging and Finance, Gersh Agency.<span style=""> </span>Consults on indep films and works on finance.<span style=""> </span>Works with equity funds.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary Randall, Co-founder, Boardwalk Entertainment Group, a production + media company.<span style=""> </span>Executive producer of Saving Grace.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena Ronson, Co-Head, UTA Independent Film Group, United Talent Agency.<span style=""> </span>Works on global film finance for independent + co-financed productions.<span style=""> </span>Formerly with William Morris working on finance + distribution for >500 titles.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal Sadoff, Head of International + Independent Film, ICM.<span style=""> </span>Formerly in the banking business.<span style=""> </span>Formed Cobalt Media, which does film financing.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric Schotz, President + CEO, LMNO Productions.<span style=""> </span>9 Emmy awards, producer/director for non-fiction + reality TV.<span style=""> </span>"Kids say the darnedest things" etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------- <br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: About "packaging" - we'll discuss that from agent and producer view.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: And BTW I have pre-production artwork from my upcoming movies:<span style=""><br /> </span>- The 12 Disasters of Christmas<span style=""><br /> </span>- Snowmageddon</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: to my panelists, what's your definition of "packaging"?<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Let's talk about what the agents on this panel do.<span style=""> </span>"Packaging" and "finance" are similar.<span style=""> </span>We work with filmmakers.<span style=""> </span>Packaging is the director, talent, script, etc. all of that coming together to get financing.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: And typically we don't get involved until at least one of those elements is involved, not just a script.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: I'm on the TV side, it's different.<span style=""> </span>To "package", somebody has to add value to what I've already got.<span style=""> </span>If I wrote it and my agent is in the room and I cut a deal, that's not a "package".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: for indy films, our role is like an exec. producer.<span style=""> </span>We don't get credits for it but we play a similar role.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: Difference between TV and film packaging?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: In TV if the agent makes one call, they claim they get to call that a "package".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">And then "package" is 3% of license fee, with another 3% deferred, and 10% of modified adjusted gross, and the agency gets to define "modified adjusted gross".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">[Gary being pretty hostile here, he seems to have had some bad experiences in the industry.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: It's putting together elements to allow the TV show or film to get made.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: in film it's a different dynamic, we might work on a film for 12+ months, you can't compare to TV packaging, it's not my area.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: there would be many TV producers who do need packaging, Gary here doesn't.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: When we put movies together we go to other agencies for help.<span style=""> </span>We represent 7 equity funds who invest in movies.<span style=""> </span>We try to be agency-neutral, we'll put money anywhere, our investors don't care.<span style=""> </span>We work with ETA, UTA, etc.<span style=""> </span>[Need to look up these different organization names - too many TLAs]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Our clients are the projects, we work to put them together in the best way to get them financed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: How many films do you package in a year.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: We work on 25 movies at once.<span style=""> </span>Last year we had 40 movies at once.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: "working on" is different from "putting together".<span style=""> </span>We got 14 into Sundance and 3 into Cannes, but we have a team of people doing this.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: 15-20 films/year get made, and 30-50 "working on" at any given time.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: Shortest and longest-duration packages you've worked on?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: I had one that crossed my job change, 2 agencies.<span style=""> </span>7 years, went through 3 directors and different casts and finally it's showing now in N. Carolina.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Client said he wanted to do an all-improv comedy.<span style=""> </span>One of our equity clients said yes, we'll fund that.<span style=""> </span>There was no script.<span style=""> </span>Took us 3 months.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: It can take 12 months, 18 months, depends on the budget, the names [stars], you may have to wait a year for somebody's schedule.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Could take several years - took 5 years to make Crazy Heart because different elements shift in and out [of the project.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Film is different from TV.<span style=""> </span>In TV you always have a need for product, in film you can live off your libraries.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: That's insane, you can't keep going forever on just your library for long.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: We're now packaging our own features.<span style=""> </span>We raise our own independent financing.<span style=""> </span>We determine our distributors, we're doing our own thing.<span style=""> </span>We ARE sometimes working with packaging agencies.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: You went from being an agent to being a producer - what are you working on?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: I went from agent to producer because I didn't want to be the suit who showed up on the set and was "the lunch guest" - I like getting my hands dirty, I like figuring out the material and how to finance it.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: We get to do that stuff too, it's a good job.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: Right, the indy side is different from the mainstream packaging.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: The blame for crappy packaging usually goes to the producer, they never blame the agent.<span style=""> </span>Just saying.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: Head of Columbia Pictures at one point banned packaging, he said "we won't do it".<span style=""> </span>That job didn't last long.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: A good agent is making your project better, that's the end goal, they're bringing something to the table that you can't get, whether it's TV or film.<span style=""> </span>"Can you bring me a writer or director that I can't get?", that's what they do.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: We did some work with CAA and they did some packaging for us, that helped.<span style=""> </span>There have been other circumstances, primarily in TV, where the agents have overreached [in their demands?]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: We're talking here about clients who need our help.<span style=""> </span>Gary, you're a producer who knows how to do it, you don't need the assistance.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Even some of the more successful producers don't know how to make a $10M or $6M film, they come to us for help.<span style=""> </span>For indy films we do offer some leverage, we're doing business with a lot of buyers: China, Qatar, Europe, etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: What budget ranges are best for packaging success?<span style=""> </span>Easier to get financed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Big disparity in budgets - lots of films under $2M now, with bigger talent.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Crazy was made for under $2M.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Homework went at Sundance, sold to Fox Searchlight, went onto 600 screens, made for under $2M.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: Do people [talent] want to be associated with $200M films or $2M films?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: studios are focusing on giant tentpole films, Batman etc., and a lot of talent is willing to do smaller-budget films.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: We get a lot of good projects coming our way.<span style=""> </span>And we show people how they can make their film for lower budgets.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: You have to ask the business model for each movie.<span style=""> </span>Budget is relative to the genre.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Lots of high networth individuals want to get into the business now and they'll put up $500K each, and they'll band together.<span style=""> </span>And these films are starting to have success at Sundance.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: Gary, how do you use music?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: We're music-centric, affiliated with Sony, BMI, BMG, etc.<span style=""> </span>Our music partners don't get much synergy from their parent corporations and are looking to film and TV to get exposure for their music.<span style=""> </span>"Majors and Minors", kids show, financed by 4 music partners.<span style=""> </span>We've got Justin Timberlake in a project, Casablance Story, P&A funding is coming from the music business.<span style=""> </span>When we announced his involvement, we got an unsolicited call from somebody who had just sold her tech company for $400M and she's a fan.<span style=""> </span>I thought it might be a prank call or somebody spoofing us.<span style=""> </span>She looks like she might be legitimate and we're vetting her right now - we might have an angel investor.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Nowadays it's high net-worth individuals: people will put in $100K to several millions, and that's how most indy films are getting made these days.<span style=""> </span>[Scary.<span style=""> </span>This 1%/99% dichotomy is really coming out in a big way<span style=""> </span>here at AFM.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: Talk about the back-end - what do you pay a packager?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: I have no idea what they make.<span style=""> </span>I have yet to make ANY money from any backend deal I've ever made.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: As a former agent I can tell you the agent's definition of "back-end", and it's different from what the filmmaker thinks it is.<span style=""> </span>We used to joke at William Morris we used to say that "our [moviemaking] clients are taking 90% of our income" [i.e. we want it all, not 10%].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: We had a situation where we did the right thing for the client and didn't make anything.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: We may hate agents, but I've never LOST a project due to a package.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: And the CAA did help me on a kids show.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: what do you charge, as agents, as a packaging fee on a film project?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: % of budget, it depends on the budget.<span style=""> </span>You need a greater percentage on a smaller-budget film.<span style=""> </span>If we sell it, there's a sales fee.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Packaging is 1-3% and sales is 5-10% typically, but changes for international.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Every project is different.<span style=""> </span>You can defer, waive, etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Recent project I'm working on, we did 100% of the budget, brought the whole team together.<span style=""> </span>Packaging departments are expensive to run - we go to Cannes, we got to Toronto, we do a lot of work to learn what the buyers want.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: As a former studio president, the problem we had with packaging was that we took all the risk and the agents get paid no matter what.<span style=""> </span>At William Morris we said "we commission failures too".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: We don't get paid unless the film gets financed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: But the movie hasn't made money.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Everybody else gets paid, the producer gets paid, are you saying we shouldn't get paid?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">[This has turned into a panel fight over compensation in the packaging / agent industry.<span style=""> </span>Moderator should be intervening but he isn't.<span style=""> </span>Audience finally coaxed him to do something.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: What's the best way for our audience members to discuss a concept with you?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: If you've never produced, go find an executive producer who can help you put your movie together.<span style=""> </span>If you have a SF movie, get an exec producer to read the script and like it and say "I'll make some phone calls to help you make this picture."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: In the history of all panels like this, nothing has ever been sold in the room.<span style=""> </span>If you pitch something to me now, I don't know what to do with it.<span style=""> </span>It's hard for us to take a cold pitch that comes from nowhere.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Right, we don't take unsolicited scripts, we work with exec producers who have relationships [are we sensing a theme here?] with us, we know htem.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: In my previous role I'd go to places where I knew producers would be and I'd talk to them.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: Everybody can make a movie today, everybody can put it on the internet.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: We use sizzle reels to sell stuff.<span style=""> </span>You can say "I have a 5-minute sizzle reel" - don't make it 7 minutes.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Yes, reality TV, people will spend lots of money to make 10 sizzle reels and see what sticks.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: I'll take calls from producers I know [and not from people I don't].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: Jay, talk about these 6 equity firms you work with.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: They're all different with dift objectives.<span style=""> </span>Some want senior investment, some what subordinated debt.<span style=""> </span>We've funded 9 movies in past 18 months ranging from $500K up to $35M.<span style=""> </span>Hedge funds.<span style=""> </span>Our agency isn't full of big stars.<span style=""> </span>We don't tell our investors what to invest in.<span style=""> </span>We'll take money from X, Y, Z</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: You're not taking money from me.<span style=""> </span>[Doesn't help that Gary is sitting right next to the guy whose industry he hates.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: We had a situation and we did the numbers for the star and the director, the star averaged $12M/picture and the director averaged $18M/picture, but we did the math and we needed $38M revenue to make it profitable, and we told the investors "do you really want to invest in this, we recommend against".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: VOD starting to generate real revenues, so downside risk on indy films is going down, you can get real revenue now compared to a few years ago, and that helps the indy film business.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: The packaging depts are changing as the industry changes, we're becoming more like producers.<span style=""> </span>I can handle the numbers, but I still need somebody who can talk to actors and writers.<span style=""> </span>We bring in creatives to help movies get where they need to go.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: I think you've successfully replaced what the studios used to do.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q&A TIME</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What are the key terms between producers and a sales agent?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: depends on whether the sales agent is financing the movie, or is just representing the movie.<span style=""> </span>10-15% if they're not financing.<span style=""> </span>If they are, then 20-25% sales fees.<span style=""> </span>For the top tier agencies.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Do the agents put up money in advance?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">A: No, but we introduce you to people who put up money.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: I've been doing some presales for producers recently.<span style=""> </span>Quietly and selectively, with our relationships overseas.<span style=""> </span>This gives us more leverage for the filmmaker when we make the package, we can say "we already have 50% of the funding for this film".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Hal, I want an A-list actor from your stable, can you help us?<span style=""> </span>[Boo.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">A: I'd look at the script etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: How do you want the package presented to you, if there are already elements attached?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: We want at least one significant element attached, but it all begins with a script and have to believe that the script can attract talent, directors, etc at the budget that you want.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: A well-known producer also counts as "an element" here.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q:<span style=""> </span>Do you agents explore co-production opportunities?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: yes, that's a big part of what we do.<span style=""> </span>Hotel Rwanda was UK - S. Africa - and other locations.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: How do I get a big-name producer?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: look at the producers who make the type of movie you're making.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I'm confused, getting mixed messages - do I start with agents, or start with talking to producers, or are you on the panel the actual producers, what to do?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: There's no "right way".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: So no agents are taking submissions these days?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: If we got email from 50% of the people in this room, what would we do?<span style=""> </span>We'd be overloaded.<span style=""> </span>You need to find somebody with a relationship with us who has made a successful movie.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: There are only so many movies made each year.<span style=""> </span>If a newcomer producer brings me a project, and somebody who has produced 10 movies does it, I have to go with the 10-movie producer, it's a time thing.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: Hollywood is run by the assistants, that's the big secret.<span style=""> </span>If you attend the mixers at the film schools, USC, align yourself with assistants at the agencies and get somebody to love your project, you will find what you need, you'll find the powerhouse support.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: That's 100% true.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: Everybody on this panel was an assistant at one point.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I had a bad experience with a packaging agency.<span style=""> </span>How do you keep them on timetable?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: You said you have $4M already - you don't need a packaging agent, just make your movie.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Yes but I think a better agency would have got me better stars.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: I don't know where your money is sitting, but put it into Citibank Beverly Hills or Comerica or some entertainment bank, then you put some in escrow and make pay-or-play offers with drop-dead dates, you'll see that money spent very fast, it will happen.<span style=""> </span>The trick is if it's offshore, people don't necessarily believe that it's really there.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Re the "sizzle reel", explain that, what works?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: Very subjective, they can be done for a lot of reasons.<span style=""> </span>One might be for buyer.<span style=""> </span>One might be a casting reel - "here are the people I'm looking for".<span style=""> </span>It depends on what you're trying to sell.<span style=""> </span>I try to have 1 thought per reel rather than 30 things going on.<span style=""> </span>The reel shows your idea visually.<span style=""> </span>For every idea there are a lot of people doing that idea, you need to show me </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Spec script selling?<span style=""> </span>Now you seem to need a video, is that a necessity to sell a script?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: First-time director or what?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: The script is good [yeah right] and want to look for people to do it.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: So you have a spec script you want to sell.<span style=""> </span>Publishers are now cutting trailers for their BOOKS to get people to buy their book.<span style=""> </span>So create something, a one-sheet, a poster, whatever.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: If you walk in with an amazing reel, the chances of your script being read are orders of magnitude higher.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: VOD?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: We're seeing sometimes millions of dollars coming from VOD now, which is making a difference, people are willing to pay for that, there's a floor value from VOD.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: So that works if you do theatrical also?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: there's day-and-date, all kinds of experimentation right now.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Paul: We had huge VOD larger than box office on one of my films, larger even than DVD.<span style=""> </span>People might have been embarrassed to go see this particular movie in the theaters [cough cough, this is the type of movie his studio makes, weird slasher and disaster stuff]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">- What do you look for in a script?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">- I've shot an instructional video, does that build credibility for directing a feature film?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: The instructional video won't help for feature, it doesn't help us convince actors.<span style=""> </span>Re script, if you give me a period drama, go away, I'd be shot.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I usually do action + horror.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: OK you're in the right place.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: If you're a filmmaker, make a trailer.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: And don't tell us how much you suffered to make your previous video, it doesn't help your case.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">- Series of fantasy books similar to Harry Potter, is that an idea you like?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">- Do I need a script?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Source material gets you in the door - graphic novel or series of books.<span style=""> </span>We aren't in the development business.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: We have a book department, that's what they do - they did Twilight and The Host.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: My problem is people pitching ideas when they don't have the rights to make the movie from the book.<span style=""> </span>Do you have the rights?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: We're hopefully signing today, this afternoon.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Panel: No, that's the problem, it's the "we think we're signing today" thing, you get it signed and then talk to [people like] us.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">[This is turning into a non-Q&A session in which every person with a "question" is really looking to pitch their project, they want help making their movies from the panelists specifically.<span style=""> </span>Questions are too project-specific.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: - I've done 100 projects already.<span style=""> </span>Do I need a sizzle reel?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: probably not if you've done all the things you've done</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: In the packaging process, how important is soft money?<span style=""> </span>Do you get involved in where, physically, the film might be shot?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: it makes a difference.<span style=""> </span>and Japan is down, Spain is down, they're not buying, so soft money is becoming more important.<span style=""> </span>We might suggest that you shoot in Canada, etc.<span style=""> </span>That's part of what we do, help you do the film in the best way.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: We know all the incentives for the venues, that's what we do.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">[Discussion about where their various projects are shooting due to tax incentives.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I've shot the entire film on SD, 2 years in S. Africa, we have the foley etc, it's a spec piece so that we can make the movie [in HD].<span style=""> </span>I got told "you're a first-time director, we don't like that".<span style=""> </span>What are the chances that I'll be kicked off the project?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Nobody can kick you off your own project if you own the rights to your material.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: Do you want to MAKE this movie, or DIRECT this movie?<span style=""> </span>Are you willing to stand down so that you can your film?<span style=""> </span>That's your question - maybe you're now the producer, not the director.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: I had exactly this situation and had to tell a director to step down and become a producer, we had to have a Latino director.<span style=""> </span>He chose to step down and the film went forward.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: But if your goal is to be the director, then chase your passion.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Re assistants.<span style=""> </span>How do I become an assistant?<span style=""> </span>In the agency world.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Every agency has an HR department and training, we're always taking applications.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: And if you don't need money for a while, work as a free intern for a few months and you're generally guaranteed an assistant job.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Gary: Stay away from the WME - they have lots of assistants and promote very few of them.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What should be on my resume to work on your teams as an agent or assistant?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jay: Film school might be a good start.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Eric: There's no single path ABC.<span style=""> </span>Don't become an agent unless you like to read, that would be a bad choice.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I can't get my calls returned for this book I've optioned, what should I do?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Hal: Normally you go to literary agents within the agencies, or the book departments - that's not us.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: [This is a panelist from a previous day]<span style=""> </span>Do you recommend having a top sheet on your package that lists your genre and historical box office / revenue for this genre?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">Rena: Good idea, anything to help us out, our attention spans are short.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;">A2: But don't make up figures, that will come back to bite you.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-30995731567013268642011-11-08T16:55:00.000-08:002011-11-08T16:58:27.800-08:00Monday: Production Conference part 1: "Brand Integration"<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> <w:validateagainstschemas/> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:donotpromoteqf/> <w:lidthemeother>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:lidthemeasian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables/> <w:snaptogridincell/> <w:wraptextwithpunct/> <w:useasianbreakrules/> <w:dontgrowautofit/> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark/> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp/> 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mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align: center; font-family: trebuchet ms;" align="center"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 7, 2011 9 AM: Production Conference notes part 1, "Brand Integration"<br />Notes by B. Hahne</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 4 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!"<span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A.<span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >-----------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Moderator: Georg Szalai, NY Bureau chief and Business Editor, the Hollywood Reporter</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Panel:</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric Baum, SVP for Business & Legal Affairs wor Worldwide Marketing, Sony Pictures<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier Kochhar, Managing Partner, MediaLink</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan Yospe, Legal Counsel for Motion Picture, TV, and Brand Integration with Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >[This was a really solid session, the panelists gave clear responses, understood that the audience is mostly small-budget filmmakers, and were trying hard to be helpful to the audience.]<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >--------------------------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Video clip: negotiations/meetings re "The Greatest Movie Ever Sold" - it's a movie about product placement, which is funded by product placement.<span style=""> </span>The video is mostly clips of the filmmaker being turned down or brushed off.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: Tell us about this film</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: Picked up by Sony Pictures Classics, our "independent" distribution arm.<span style=""> </span>Oh and BTW I'm speaking today only for myself, not for Sony.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: I'm an attorney and we have a lot of advertising clients - this movie didn't make McDonald's look too good, so we couldn't get involved.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Morgan, the guy who made the film, had the idea for this film, gave it at TED - see the TED website.<span style=""> </span>Morgan is a documentary filmmaker who brings up tougher issues in a funny way.<span style=""> </span>He went to Hollywood private film finance and they said no.<span style=""> </span>So then he went to the brands directly.<span style=""> </span>He didn't have agency or brand relationships, but he worked through intermediaries like us [on the panel].<span style=""> </span>The response he got was primarily "Morgan, you do have a brand yourself, and you're kind of controversial.<span style=""> </span>This is a lot of risk for not a lot of potential upside - this film doesn't look like a tentpole film."<span style=""> </span>Coke, P&G, others weren't going to touch this film.<span style=""> </span>But lower-tier brands were willing to take a look.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: For filmmakers looking to do brand integration, who are the key players that they need to talk to?<span style=""> </span>And is it different for Sony vs. small filmmakers?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: Let's first untangle the language.<span style=""> </span>"Brand integration" is not "product placement".<span style=""> </span>We live in a branded world, brands are everywhere.<span style=""> </span>For an independent producer where every dime matters, if you can even get 100 cases of water for free [for featuring the water bottle in your film], that's a win.<span style=""> </span>But for Sony, water is not exactly on our high-priority needs list.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Most of my work as an attorney is to work on brand integration deals.<span style=""> </span>As filmmakers you need drinks, food, cars, hotel rooms.<span style=""> </span>We work with the product placement people.<span style=""> </span>These deals are simple: "We give you water, you use good-faith efforts to get us into the movie, and you don't put our competitors' product in the movie".<span style=""> </span>That's product placement.<span style=""> </span>"Brand integration" is more comprehensive or involved - the water gets integrated into the storyline somehow, using a brand strategy.<span style=""> </span>In this situation the brand owner can both pay you cash, AND contribute to the marketing expenses of your movie when it comes out.<span style=""> </span>The latter component is called "activation".<span style=""> </span>You try to integrate the product into the storyline without making it obvious that you did this.<span style=""> </span>But for product placement, the main legal requirement is just that you NOT feature the competitors' product.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: How can filmmakers get these deals?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: If you have a budget, you can talk to me.<span style=""> </span>Depends on the size of the production and whether you have distribution.<span style=""> </span>For the big studios, you're working with all the major advertisers anyway, you just call them up and say "here's what's coming out this summer, do you want your product(s) in the movie?" and then you negotiate.<span style=""> </span>For small filmmakers, the easiest method is you go to the owner of some local restaurant or business [and you work out a barter].<span style=""> </span>For a mid-sized film I'd seriously advise you to work with people like Jordan here, or me - my job is to know all the agencies and it's your job [as a filmmaker] to make the best film.<span style=""> </span>We don't want to be in the business of filmmaking, that's your job.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: As a lawyer I get calls every few weeks from indy filmmakers who have given money to "consultants in the brand integration space" - there's one guy who's particularly infamous, and some firms are now getting into this business [scam].<span style=""> </span>They ask for $20K to $50K up front -- and people have paid them this money -- to go "fund their picture with branded dollars".<span style=""> </span>These "consultants" then disappear.<span style=""> </span>And even for $50K it's not worth it to sue, which is why they ask for the $50K [and not more].<span style=""> </span>If you don't have a distribution deal, I advise you to stay away from these people.<span style=""> </span>Xavier and I, our job is to make sure you're talking to the right people, typically somebody lower down the branding chain.<span style=""> </span>I charge by the hour and my time will only cost you a few thousand dollars.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Right, always do your homework, spend money on due diligence if needed.<span style=""> </span>Be wary of anybody who says "I can guarantee X".<span style=""> </span>Here on the panel we work with some of the largest brands in the world and WE can't "guarantee" anything.<span style=""> </span>Also be wary of giving money up front.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: Filmmakers might be worried about integrity of the film, not getting "too commercial" - is there a balance?<span style=""> </span>And can you give an example of integrations that have worked well, or not well?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: You start by looking at the script and breaking it down.<span style=""> </span>Look at every prop in the film, every element, everywhere that some product might appear.<span style=""> </span>We have people who do that.<span style=""> </span>If we see opportunities then we bring those to the filmmaker and talk about what we could do.<span style=""> </span>For a studio picture, we usually don't need "production resource support", i.e. we don't need the brand owner to provide us with the product.<span style=""> </span>What we like is above-the-line media [spend] coming to assist the $30M to $50M P&A that we at Sony have to spend.<span style=""> </span>There has to be a relationship, and you don't want to take the audience out of the suspension of disbelief.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: The big filmmakers worry about this too, by the way - "are you going to start jamming brands into my film?"<span style=""> </span>We have a conversation and talk about what makes sense WRT marketing and the creative side of the film.<span style=""> </span>Then we offer some choices, "here's what we came up with, what changes are going to happen [within the film]?<span style=""> </span>What makes sense?"<span style=""> </span>With Sony this is a very collaborative process, and nobody has forced a brand into a picture that I've seen.<span style=""> </span>For smaller films where the money matters a lot, you have to work to find the potential integrations.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >I worked on a $100M film and the director didn't have $50K to do one shot that he wanted.<span style=""> </span>You'd think he could have just called up the studio and said "I'm doing this [get me the money]", but he couldn't.<span style=""> </span>So we found him some money to do it [presumably via product placement].<span style=""> </span>The advertisers can be seen as resources to help you make the movie you want to make.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Second video clip intro comments:</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: This is a Sony film, it's a comedy.<span style=""> </span>The filmmakers kept a lot of creative control.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: None of what you're about to see was in the script.<span style=""> </span>With comedies you never know what's really going to work.<span style=""> </span>So here they used a prop to make th movie funnier.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >(Clips: Adam Sandler film where a KFC chicken bucket shows up all over the place - seems like a running gag.)</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Those showed you a brand deal that we did with KFC.<span style=""> </span>The only deal up front was that one of them would carry the KFC bucket in the first scene.<span style=""> </span>The other things happened later, in the other scenes, and we were on the phone to KFC saying "is this OK?"<span style=""> </span>KFC ended up liking it.<span style=""> </span>It wasn't me asking the cast to do this, the cast came up with it, the actor cut holes in the KFC bucket and put it on his head.<span style=""> </span>KFC got 2 minutes of screen time in that film.<span style=""> </span>What we do for brands is we look for scenes that are important in the film, scenes unlikely to be cut, and we say "how can I get a brand into that scene?<span style=""> </span>Do they drink beer, do they drink Coke? <span style=""> </span>Is there pizza? What could be in this scene that I can use as a brand?"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: So is this just good luck for the brand, or did you call KFC and say they had to spend more money to help you?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Yes those phone calls did take place.<span style=""> </span>The brands have a quarterly budget and their job is to spend it.<span style=""> </span>They don't take money back, but they also don't have more to spend.<span style=""> </span>We actually created this clip reel to take to the KFC annual convention.<span style=""> </span>We got the employees [francisees] excited and used this to try to ask for more media spend from KFC.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: It also helps here that you have the talent [actors] engaged with the brand on screen.<span style=""> </span>Typically you have to pay millions of dollars to get top talent to do that.<span style=""> </span>Many top talent have contractual terms that limit your ability to make them interact with products on-screen.<span style=""> </span>The actors are managing their own brands as well.<span style=""> </span>They may also have contractual terms limiting your ability to do an after-production marketing campaign that features the actor + the brand, since that would imply an endorsement.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: Are there cases where product placement doesn't make sense, but a marketing relationship does?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Why would a brand work with a studio or vice-versa?<span style=""> </span>3 reasons:</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >1. Media value.<span style=""> </span>This film reaches a certain demographic and we want to reach that also.<span style=""> </span>We want a halo effect from the film.<span style=""> </span>Impressions [here he means number of eyeball-views] are important.<span style=""> </span>If only 10K people will ever see your film, it doesn't make sense for most major brands to talk to you.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Well, even for a small film, can you say "I'll give you some cool footage of people using your product, and your ad agency won't give that to you"?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >2. Yes.<span style=""> </span>PR value: maybe it's a green film, environmental film.<span style=""> </span>The brand says OK, I'm going to take this footage and do something with it.<span style=""> </span>These budgets are often PR budgets, not media budgets, and there's usually less money there.<span style=""> </span>The media budgets are the big budgets and you generally want to chase those.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >The cases where a very specific product MUST be the product onscreen are very rare.<span style=""> </span>As a studio, your job is to put butts in seats and sell blu-ray disks.<span style=""> </span>The studios don't care that much about $50K or $100K or whatever up front, what they care about is "KFC, you spend media money already, I want you to help market my film when you do that."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Transformers: that movie has about 50 brand integrations in it.<span style=""> </span>It's easy to get lost in the clutter in there.<span style=""> </span>If you're in charge of a media budget, I'd advise you to hold on to a small portion of your budget for the occasional indy film which is precisely for you, like "Up in the Air" if you're American Airlines.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" ><span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >[Oops, we never got reason #3]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Clip: Taco Bell and Godzilla, TV ad.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Clip: Green Hornet goes to Carl's, in Black Beauty (the car) to order some chicken tenders.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: For the Godzilla ad, none of the pre-film footage showed the creature, you had to go to the movie to see the monster.<span style=""> </span>The Taco Bell ad just shows the tail.<span style=""> </span>Studio got over $20M of above-the-line media from tie-ins.<span style=""> </span>For Green Hornet, they did a special shoot with the actors, it was expensive - car, VFX, etc.<span style=""> </span>We originally thought maybe some of that footage could go into the film, but that didn't happen.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Clip: Men In Black II, TV ad for Audi.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q&A</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: How much will a brand pay per minute, or per page?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: We used to talk about that, minutes and pages, but we stopped doing that a while ago.<span style=""> </span>Usually it's just "we have some scenes that we think could work".<span style=""> </span>For money, it's dependent on the totality of the project - they're not going to pay for N minutes in your movie, even if it's a huge blockbuster, the brand wants to know who's in the movie, what's happening in the scene, where is the distribution, all kinds of details.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: If you're not a studio I'd be careful about using metrics [in this area].<span style=""> </span>Because then the brands are going to jump on you and say "OK, let's talk about impressions" and you say "well, it will be in 3 theaters!" [and that's not productive, obviously]<span style=""> </span>Eric has a story related to music licensing here.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: We were looking at one music track from a name brand, substantial record label, for a TV campaign, and they wanted $250K for the composition and another $250K for the recording.<span style=""> </span>We said "look, you're trying to push this record, you GIVE us the music and we'll put the song into a Burger King campaign that we're working on."<span style=""> </span>That didn't happen, but it's an example of a reversal in value considerations, value proposition.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: As a consumer, two integrations that worked for me even though I didn't see the movies:</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Nick Cage, song by Cold Play, "Fix You", I learned about the song through the media spots, not even the trailer.<span style=""> </span>So I bought the song.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Iron Man film - I loved that car, I didn't even know what the car WAS, I just called it "the Iron Man car" and I wanted one, but then I found out it was a $120K car.<span style=""> </span>So instead I just bought the Cold Play song [ha].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: How about documentaries, can you do integrations?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Documentaries are tougher since there's sort of no control.<span style=""> </span>You can't say "here's what I'm thinking might happen, please give me $1M and we'll see what happens."<span style=""> </span>If you have an actual script then you have something you can work a legal deal around - "you will do this or I won't pay you."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: If you have a certain talent in the documentary which matters to a certain brand, then it can work.<span style=""> </span>For example we're doing a doc with a major NBA player right now, and we're looking for brands that want to be associated with that.<span style=""> </span>But it WILL affect the creative side - it changes the structure of how the doc is developed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: In the under $5M range, many filmmakers are pushing genre and elements, sex, nudity, violence, blood, etc.<span style=""> </span>What's the LEAST attractive elements for brand integration, i.e. what aren't you looking for?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Mostly common sense.<span style=""> </span>If you're a brand, you want people to use your product.<span style=""> </span>You want your product associated with the hero not the antagonist.<span style=""> </span>You don't want your product used to hurt people.<span style=""> </span>You don't want negative associations with your brand, and you usually avoid controversy.<span style=""> </span>I'm not a marketing guy, it took me a while to figure this out.<span style=""> </span>If it's a horror film, how will we use a brand in that film?<span style=""> </span>It's still a violent movie.<span style=""> </span>Some brands don't mind nudity or violence - they're usually the liquor brands and energy drinks [ha].<span style=""> </span>At the opposite side, the G and PG movies, it's very difficult.<span style=""> </span>There are brands doing TIE-INS but those brands aren't directly in the movie.<span style=""> </span>I don't get it, actually, these firms will advertise all over the place but they won't put their products in my G movie.<span style=""> </span>There's a big concern about pushing stuff at kids [via product placement, apparently].<span style=""> </span>But PG-13 yes, it works for the brand people.<span style=""> </span>With the hard R movies, as long as the brand isn't in the nude scenes.<span style=""> </span>Drug use is bad for a lot of brands - they don't want that association - they don't want the press saying that this brand was associated with drug use.<span style=""> </span>If it's an R-rated action film with nudity, then we can look at what we do around the hero, in the important scenes without the nudity element.<span style=""> </span>For the brand manager, they ask "could I get in trouble when this film comes out, for negative brand association?"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Make the film you want to make - the brands aren't saying "I'll change my brand campaign based on the next movie coming out" [so similarly you shouldn't go changing your movie around based on brands.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: Re the KFC ad, [more info please.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: In this case we spoke directly with the CMO, we had a relationship, we said "here's what's starting to happen on set, is this OK?"<span style=""> </span>[Jordan is apparently literally on set during the filming, that's part of his job, he gets to hang around the set as the onsite product brand placement lawyer.]<span style=""> </span>I can never go to the filmmakers and say "you have to cut this scene, KFC doesn't like it" - I'd send somebody else if we had to tell them that [ha].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: If you show a branded car and it crashes in the next scene, is that a problem?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: That's more of a clearance issue, you might be misusing a trademark.<span style=""> </span>But in the US you probably have pretty strong rights to do that, 1st Amendment etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: About cars.<span style=""> </span>No underage drinking, no drinking and driving.<span style=""> </span>Car guys don't like their cars crashing.<span style=""> </span>If you crash a car maybe that's just a clearance issues, but if you want to work with the brand, you've got an issue.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >[More discussion about shooting scenes with crashing cars.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- How does a brand evaluate the results of a placement?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Please share some numbers about how much was paid by a car company above the cost of the car they gave you.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" ><span style=""> </span>Xavier: first question is good.<span style=""> </span>The only way that marketers give you money, or continue to give you money, is if you have hard ROI metrics.<span style=""> </span>~8 years ago - these were the days when people would just say "we'll throw a ton of money at you and we'll see what happens".<span style=""> </span>But those days are over.<span style=""> </span>Particularly with digital [he means internet], you have a lot of metrics.<span style=""> </span>Media buyers don't buy based on you saying "it depends".<span style=""> </span>Media buyers have metrics sheets - they call it "buying spots and dots".<span style=""> </span>They're buying the metrics: specific demographics with specific frequencies.<span style=""> </span>This is why in Eric's business, the TV ad tie-ins and so on, they do these deals, they're very easy to put metrics around - this much was spent on the TV ads.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Jack & Jill, I was just at that movie last night.<span style=""> </span>We shot on a cruise ship.<span style=""> </span>That's normally very expensive - we had to bring a big film crew onto a cruise ship, and the big stars want the big rooms.<span style=""> </span>Seven figures to do that.<span style=""> </span>We did an integration with the brand.<span style=""> </span>Typically figures like that are low 6-figures.<span style=""> </span>But this had big name stars - Adam Sandler, Al Pacino.<span style=""> </span>If you don't have that, the dollar figures drop off rapidly.<span style=""> </span>There was another case in the film where there's a brand involved, and in the end no money came our way, it turned into just a [trademark] clearance issue.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >With cars, sometimes you get free cars and you keep them.<span style=""> </span>Sometimes you get cars and they take them back.<span style=""> </span>Sometimes they pay to put the cars in your movie.<span style=""> </span>If you're beyond $100K then you're doing something special.<span style=""> </span>What Eric does here is in the $10M+ range for media buys, that's different.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Right, if you're above $250K deal it's something special, a studio film.<span style=""> </span>Most deals are more like $50K.<span style=""> </span>If you don't have those [brand] relationships, you need to rely on guys like us - me and Jordan - we bill per hour, though I do have a commission model.<span style=""> </span>For a $50K integration for a small film, that's a lot of my time.<span style=""> </span>There's a fundamental issue in the brand integration business, has been around for a long time, which is the deals [for indy films] are too small.<span style=""> </span>I have a responsibility to my CEO and if I'm going to only make $5K on 100 hours of my time, that doesn't make economic sense.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >[Eric hands out a Jack and Jill Tshirt to the questioner]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: BTW, that was brand integration within this panel. [ha]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: So you get paid a commission as part of your work?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >A: That can be part of the model, yes.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: So how do we know if it's worth it to have Jordan bill us hourly.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: First of all, you should have a product PLACEMENT guy running around trying to get you free water.<span style=""> </span>that's not what we do.<span style=""> </span>We do integration.<span style=""> </span>If your budget is $1M it's going to be tough.<span style=""> </span>I don't actually care about the budget of your film, I care about who's in it, how much distribution do you have.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Eric: Right, for the Adam Sandler film it's $30M P&A from Sony.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: If you just show a product in a movie, is that just a clearance issue?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: If you show it and there's no deal in place beforehand, that's just clearance.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: But can I go in advance and say "we're going to show your brand in the scene?"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: That's placement, at best you'll get free product, probably.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier + Jordan: Also BTW, most of these brands want present-set or future-set films, not set in the past.<span style=""> </span>Once in a while you might get some film set in the past where it makes sense for Coke to get placement, but that's rare.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: Metrics, huh?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Click-through rates, impression metrics, more.<span style=""> </span>There was a recent deal where the payoff was stepped: "you get this much money at each proof of eyeball delivery".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Two of the best integrations IMHO are Pirates of the Carribean, and Harry Potter, despite the absence of brands.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Pirates was a giant integration for the theme parks.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Harry Potter: you want to buy the books.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >And BTW there were purposely NO integrations in those movies.<span style=""> </span>There were TIE-INS, but not product integrations.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: Re internet, films are releasing online, getting millions of viewers. Can you do product integration here, with the TV model online?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: If you have those numbers [viewers] already, yes.<span style=""> </span>Voyr.com is working in this area, they do backstage stuff for Jay-Z.<span style=""> </span>We know up front roughly how<span style=""> </span>many views we'll get from this footage.<span style=""> </span>As a filmmaker if you DON'T have these numbers, you can't go to Xavier and say "spend millions on my internet thing".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: There's some similarity in the music business, I had a friend talking to me about how to break into the music industry now.<span style=""> </span>Today's advice I gave was: if you're such a great musician, record something and put it out there.<span style=""> </span>Justin Bieber is the example.<span style=""> </span>There was zero risk for the sponsors when he walked in to do the deal, because he already had 15M fans.<span style=""> </span>I understand that there's some sexiness to having film on spool playing in a theater, I get that, but I believe in digital [he means internet, sigh] - you can come with numbers and metrics.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Yes, you can sell films based on short videos.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Brand integration and product placement: are they common and effective in US?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >- Are there restrictions on what you can do?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Yes, it's effective, you should do it, if you don't then none of us on the panel have jobs. [ha]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Georg: yes, commonly done in the US</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: maybe a slasher film, or lots of nudity, might not make sense.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: For the KFC case, did you get the local francisees to increase their media spend?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: Initial deal was with KFC corporate.<span style=""> </span>Then they went to their francisees to get more money.<span style=""> </span>You have to work through corporate to get to those people.<span style=""> </span>And it gets complex - it's often an association of dealers.<span style=""> </span>But let corporate [with the brand] work that for you.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: I have a sitcom built around product placement and brand integration.<span style=""> </span>I spent a lot of time researching this and heard there's script analytics software that will give you ideas on how to do this.<span style=""> </span>Is this true?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: When I was in film school there were claims that there would be software that would let you write great scripts [and we know that's nonsense].</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Film is art.<span style=""> </span>For media BUYERS it's science, but there aren't any buyers on this panel.<span style=""> </span>I'm not familiar with any software that does what you say.<span style=""> </span>It's like saying that Google is going to come up with an algorithm that tells you how to direct films.<span style=""> </span>[What, you haven't heard of GScreenPlay?<span style=""> </span>Ha.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: What do you look for in a script to figure out what items to place and where?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Jordan: I can't answer that in 1 sentence.<span style=""> </span>Experience of knowing what the brands want - what is their demographic?<span style=""> </span>Even if it's "boots", that's not enough - if you tell me "boots", I say "if you want boots, here's what you need to do in that bar scene: I need a big bar scene, I want a bottle on the table, I want it way more than 30 seconds, I need a bigger shot of the boots."<span style=""> </span>I literally sit down with the filmmakers and go through this.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Q: If I can put a package together and pitch it to distributors, am I limiting distribution if there's a brand in there because the distributor wants to get the film on TV, and the rights aren't cleared?<span style=""> </span>[At least, this is how I understood the question.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >Xavier: Really good question, this is a BIG issue, hits many films, it's a bigger issue with the bigger films.<span style=""> </span>With Disney we'd get into these big complex deals.<span style=""> </span>If you have a film and the storyline is perfectly integrated with KFC, but your studio is tied to McDonald's, you're not going to get that KFC money.<span style=""> </span>[Not sure that this precisely answered the question, but oh well.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >-----------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >BREAK and end of first session</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" >-----------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style=";font-size:100%;" > </span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-3550601372961418442011-11-06T15:25:00.001-08:002011-11-06T16:58:05.310-08:00Sunday: Marketing panel #2, "Wide Releases"<span style=";font-family:trebuchet ms;font-size:100%;" >American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 6, 2011 11 AM: Marketing Conference notes part 2: "Wide Releases"<br /><br />Notes by B. Hahne<br /><br />The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 3 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.<br /><br />Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /><br />These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne. Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.<br /><br />Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!" There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A. They also probably contain errors. I'm not in the film industry, nor do I play somebody in the film industry on TV, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.<br /><br />---------------------------------------<br /><br />[In general there were problems with this panel: the moderator had issues articulating succinct, coherent questions, she interrupted her panelists multiple times, and she doesn't understand the internet. This is the first panel at the conference where I observed multiple audience members walk out partway through.]<br /><br /><br />Moderator: Pamela Rodi, Executive VP for Marketing & Publicity, Myriad Pictures. Previously at Sony, 10 years.<br /><br />Panelists:<br />- Vincent Bruzzese, President, Worldwide Motion Picture Group, Ipsos OTX MediaCT, generally known as "OTX". Research firm based in Hollywood.<br /><br />- Tomas Jegeus, co-president for International, 20th Century Fox.<br /><br />- Karina Kogan, CMO, BuzzMedia, an online publisher, owns ~36 web sites. BuzzMedia has movie studios as clients. Digital advertising and marketing.<br /><br />- Jack Pan, EVP for Marketing, Summit Entertainment. Handles digital marketing. Summit has the Twilight series and Jack is working on Breaking Dawn.<br /><br />--------------------<br /><br />Pamela: This panel is about marketing "mainstream and wide releases" using current technologies.<br /><br />Pamela: "New technologies", about the term. Tends to mean "anything that happens online or by phone or is an app." Is the terminology wrong? What's your definition?<br /><br />Vincent: Depends on context, who is using the term? Movie industry is slow to adopt to technology. Much of Hollywood is still trying to figure out email. The real problem is how to use the tech.<br /><br />Tomas: It's not new, everybody is using it. We used to have a "digital" department in my firm but we don't have that anymore, we don't have "digital watches", we just have "watches". Everybody is checking text messages in the morning when they get up. In the UK, radio listening is at its highest ever (this includes internet radio listening). TV viewing in the US is up - more ways to watch TV.<br /><br />Pamela: Difficult to draw the line between tech as distribution mechanism, and tech as content.<br /><br />Karina: Re "new tech", it's about richer experiences for the customer, ways we can improve marketing. How to captivate an audience, get them to watch a trailer.<br /><br />Jack: Technology happens every day, "new" depends on the audience. At Summit, we look at what technology is permeating people's lives and how to tap into how people are using that technology.<br /><br />Vincent: I have some examples.<br />- TV shows started going onto the internet - people said ratings would decline, which turned out to be wrong.<br />- "DVRs will make it possible to not watch TV commercials" -- turns out that a large number of DVR users will REWIND when they see a film trailer and watch the trailer.<br />- Twitter: people thought it would change everything but it turns out to be one of the least-impactful marketing methods. [Maybe in his realm?]<br /><br />Pamela: Give some examples of how you structure a marketing spend for a wide-release film today.<br /><br />Jack: Our TV spend hasn't decreased, if anything it's increased. TV viewing has INCREASED as a result of DVR, TV is still the most efficient way to reach a mass audience in a short amount of time. And of course our marketing campaigns are very fleeting compared to things like brand campaigns. Our efforts are focused around creating a big opening weekend. The places getting hit are outdoor [billboards] and print spend.<br /><br />Pamela: BTW I have some stats here, despite the fantasy of all this "free advertising" to be had on the internet, 60% to 70% of filmgoer's decisionmaking process is based on seeing film trailers on TV.<br /><br />Jack: Web is part of people's lives but it's very fragmented. Decentralized. The way to get scale is to use networks online that have scale, or something else. Reach is what matters for an ad campaign, and TV gives that. There are online publishers who do offer reach comparable to TV, but we use digital [I think he means internet - everything is "digital" these days] to reach targeted demographics.<br /><br />Tomas: Print advertising is down even though people outside of the US still read newspapers. TV spend about the same. We're increasing outdoor ads - very influential outside of US. And next year 10% of outdoor screens [billboards] will be digital [i.e. not just giant fixed posterboards]. You can do things with those outdoor screens is fancy - you can build complex 3D campaigns. Not always allowed due to regulation in the US, but we do that in Mexico.<br /><br />People used to never want to watch ads, but thankfully our commercials in the movie industry, people tend to want to watch them. You have to be in many different places - it used to be a few well-understood media channels. And we used to segment in quadrants, but today segmentation is much finer-grained. One film might have 20-25 different subgroups, and you can target those subgroups online. More work.<br /><br /><br />Pamela: Karina, about putting a campaign together. Tell us what happens.<br /><br />Karina: We're about content. We try to partner with all the studios. How can we talk about your film in the period of time leading up to its release? We try to get content from the studios: exclusive stills, interviews with cast, etc. If an audience isn't engaged with your content then they won't be engaged with your advertising for the film. For Breaking Dawn we try to create lots of content around the film. We did an overlay animated wedding invitation on the film web site, replica of the invite in the film, and visitors can RSVP via Fbook or Twitter. If they RSVP'd via Fbook then that showed up in their friends list and went viral that way.<br /><br /><br />Pamela: The digital universe is vast - how do your firms decide what to do?<br /><br />Jack: Yes, difficult to keep up with who offers the most scale - it changes quarter to quarter. We did a brainstorm with [web / online] publishers that have delivered in the past. Ended up with<br /><br />Pamela: Are there standardized rankings in this business, like Nielsen? I'm confused.<br /><br />Tomas: "Rate" is a tricky thing anyway. In TV, buying "rating points" doesn't necessarily tell you much these days - you don't know how many human beings actually sat there and watched the show. Similarly online.<br /><br />Pamela: So how do you measure? [Why is she moderating the internet technology panel when she has no basic idea about success metrics commonly used in the industry?]<br /><br />Tomas: Click-thrus is one way. You buy effectiveness.<br />Vincent: There's no shortage of companies pitching services in this space.<br />[Discussion about hit counts]<br /><br />Karina: Not easy to get 1M Youtube hits. It turns out you have a higher probability of getting hit by a bus than getting 1M Youtube hits. You can't think "I'll just put this up on the web and the universe will embrace it."<br /><br />Vincent: TV spend vs. non-TV. The decision about whether to see a movie these days is often made weeks, or more than weeks, in advance of the release date. Yet 60%+ of the marketing spend still tends to be on TV ads in the week of the release.<br /><br />Pamela: non-US, are Fbook and Twitter also big?<br /><br />Tomas: Twitter not as big, but Fbook will continue to grow for next 5 years. Fbook is overtaking the local players in every market. It will grow in all emerging markets: Brazil, Russia. Not presently in China. Then Fbook will reach saturation point and go down. Incredibly important for us right now.<br /><br />Jack: Our Fbook interaction is 2/3 non-US is what we see.<br /><br />Tomas: We don't do web sites anymore, there's no point. Well, we make it as a landing page sort of. We use the vehicles out there already: Fbook, some other media portal, somebody with audience. Youtube.<br /><br />Jack: For us it's the aggregate of what you do across many places - you're never going to get these huge crowds coming to your web site. Also different across different industries. If you're a restaurant with locations and coupons and so on, that's different. As a movie we need to get our message across many different places in a very short amount of time. That's different from established brands that have been around for decades.<br /><br />Pamela: About genre differences, are there differences in how you use digital [she means internet] campaigns?<br /><br />Tomas: It's not about genre, it varies per movie. We put the trailer up for our anti-hero superhero film, and normally when you do this on Youtube you don't get that many hits for a new property, but we've got almost 1-to-1 when people see the trailer that they want to comment on the trailer. So for now, all we're going to do is push the trailer - no cast interviews, nothing else, because we don't have to, we have the trailer. With other films if you don't have an immediate hook with the trailer then you need to add more content, and you can push different content to different segments - it depends on the film and the audience segmentation.<br /><br />Pamela: You have to customize all that content for all those segments.<br /><br />Tomas: with TV you couldn't segment like that at all.<br /><br />Vincent: You do get fanboys who say well, I can't help a film, but I can hurt a film, I can spread bad word of mouth about it. I'm finding nowadays that the goals of these campaigns are simply to not piss off the fanboy community, keep them happy. And then you can start your actual campaign elsewhere.<br /><br />Karina: We had that with one of our films, fanbase reaction to a casting decision was very negative, so the studio rapidly worked with us to release cast shots of the actress with the right hair color, etc. (Pacify the rabid fans.)<br /><br />[Discussion about movie posters.]<br /><br />Tomas: Used to be that the poster was just for the movie theaters, and then the poster was offered online as an afterthought. That's changing. Most people are connecting to the internet via mobile phone - you need to think about something that works in postage stamp size AND can be blown up - the traditional movie poster doesn't work well.<br /><br />Vincent: The posters work well now - you see the poster and then people immediately go online on their mobile and look up the movie. They're IN the theater seeing the poster for an upcoming movie, and instead of waiting 5 months for a trailer that comes out later, the poster is making them look for more info right now.<br /><br /><br />Karina: You had earlier asked "how far in advance is too soon?" For Bridesmaids: the cast wasn't A-list, it's a chick flick, can it be funny at all, is raunchy humor with women even OK, no cast that we can put onto Leno or Late Night. We work with a lot of celebrities who blog on our site. So we created viral videos of these celebrities talking about their bachelorette parties, raunchy stuff, being bridesmaids. that generated a lot of buzz, so we got 200% more views of the trailer than the studio was expecting. It worked because we started early.<br /><br />-----------------------------<br /><br />Q: Karina and Jack, about the wedding invitation thing for Twilight, give us some numbers, who viewed, how many purchased. [She thinks she's going to get exact marketing response numbers for a major property? Please. I'm sure those numbers are highly guarded.]<br /><br />Jack: That's one metric among many and I don't have the numbers in front of me. We did extra work to make sure tickets were available for sale when we started advertising. We even tagged out TV spots with "tickets now available online!" which is not a common practice. Every time we've had an opportunity for an invitation, we took it. But hard to correlate online ticket sales to any specific marketing event/spend, since there were many things in-flight at one time. BTW, the number of Fbook fans and number of trailer views doesn't correlate well with total box office - there are too many variables. You might get CTR of 1.2% which is a fantastic percentage, but it doesn't tell you how well your box office will be.<br /><br />Q: Hollywood has a "major expert problem" [?? Oh, the guy apparently wants to advance the thesis that the entire movie marketing profession is a scam, it's all just chaos anyway.]<br /><br />Vincent: I wouldn't want to ignore the past. Sex and the City, and Bridesmaids, are very different properties yet you can learn something from one and apply it to the other.<br /><br />Pamela: In this business there are potholes, and you can end up falling into those with some filmmakers, but we try to be experts as best we can.<br /><br /><br />Q: - Re the Twilight RSVP, was that targeted at fans and how do you avoid ad overload?<br />- Re viral: how do you create good ones without celebrity access?<br /><br />Karina: Re Twilight, we know we have a very engaged audience, and we're the authorities on the subject - we have one of the biggest bloggers who writes "Breaking Down Breaking Dawn" on our site. I don't think people considered the ads to be an assault - if you come to an entertainment website you expect to see entertainment ads. Re the viral question: you don't have to have stars to make a popular video.<br /><br /><br />Q: - iPhone apps, please comment.<br /> - Rewarding people with Tshirts and such for sharing with friends?<br /> - Budget: what % spend online vs. radio vs. other?<br /><br />Pamela: Nobody is going to share exact percentages with you.<br />Tomas: The spend depends. We sometimes spend 40% of the media budget online. Sometimes it's only 10%.<br />Karina: I just did a campaign for our own web sites and we had 4-cent cost per acquisition on Fbook, which is very good since we were so targeted. It literally cost us only $50 to test that.<br /><br />Vincent: Re apps, people will download a Twilight app, but for most movies people aren't going to do that.<br /><br />Jack: Right it's about the value proposition to the user - you can create an app for any movie, but what will the user get out of that app that persuades them to add that app to the collection they already have.<br /><br />Tomas: Right, among the thousands of apps being created every day, why will they download your app? We did do an app for Rio and linked it with Angry Birds, which was huge success, but we tied it to that existing property.<br /><br /><br />Q: "Wide release", what's the smallest number of theaters you've worked on for a release?<br />A1: 600-1000 is considered wide release. But these days you don't usually see that, you either see super-saturation or you see platform [staged, local] releases.<br /><br />A2: Remember this panel is about wide-release films. Also remember the "digital" part of a buy is coupled with a big media spend all over the place. Many of the questions here seem to be coming from an assumption that you can do ALL marketing online. [Yes, that's because the audience is entirely microbudget filmmakers who are clawing for some way to make their ideas succeed. Mismatch between audience and panel.]<br /><br /><br />Q: Re piracy, is this changing your ad campaigns?<br /><br />Tomas: Piracy has changed how we release. We now do day-and-date releases in Russia, same date as US, since Russia is the hub of piracy, it starts there and spreads. Family films tend to still survive piracy somehow. Tintin will be interesting - that's releasing all over the world but NOT releasing in the US yet, what's going to happen there? Pirated releases are online within HOURS of your release of a film now. All releases have been pushed towards simultaneous releases.<br /><br />-----------<br /><br />Pamela: Future of advertising?<br /><br />Tomas: The same problems are there - how do you get people to listen to your marketing message? I could have the Fbook ID of everybody in the world and that doesn't necessarily help me.<br /><br />Vincent: Information is the market of the future. Many people now make up their minds about whether to see a movie based on the 3-sentence IMDB description, which by the way nobody ever takes credit for, we don't know who writes those.<br /><br />Karina: Targeting is getting more interesting. Advertisers often know more about you. Video is interesting, particularly WRT mobile.<br /><br />Jack: Hyper-targeting is something to watch. Make a moviegoing experience specific to people based on location, they're near a specific theater, or near a group of fans. How much can we hyper-localize?<br /><br /><br />Q: As an indy filmmaker, if I get a name actor and want to pitch to a distributor, and if we try to go viral on the internet, are there things we should NOT be doing to avoid stepping on distributor toes?<br /><br />Pamela: Probably everything that you did. Some distributors are sensitive and want to control everything. In publicity you can't go back to the same media outlets with the same story a second time. A "unit publicist" working with your publicist will help you make these decisions.<br /><br />Q: So you're saying I need to decide in advance how the film will be distributed? [poor guy, this is the wrong group of people to give advice to small-budget independent filmmakers.]<br /><br />------<br /><br /><br />Q: Economic downturn. Many distributors have closed but their leads are sometimes now working as independent consultants. These are called "PMDs". What do you think about doing that, working with "service deal" companies?<br /><br />Vincent: Some are worth it, some aren't. And depends on the type of film. Look at their track record. But this is an industry of connections, and that often matters more than anything else.<br /><br /><br />Q: I've heard about anti-piracy campaigns in which fake copies of movies are uploaded to torrent sites in an attempt to saturate the torrent market with bad copies - is that still happening?<br /><br />Jack: If you go online you'll see all kinds of links that claim to be to movies, and it's just people trying to get you to go to their site - that's not us, that's just happening organically.<br /><br />Karina: I had a client who said they wanted to "leak" a clip through us, i.e. make it look like it was leaked. So we did it and then 24 hours later the studio called us and said "take it down, we don't have international rights!" Well, too late.<br /><br />Pamela: You need to clear all the music rights, etc. At AFM there have often been prework prints shared, and they use uncleared music, that's just in the room showing it to a potential buyer in private, but now this stuff is ending up online. And people will take the info sheets and posters and scan them.<br /><br />Pamela: I'm also much more aware of international now - natural disasters can change your marketing strategy. What happens to the Euro impacts your strategy.<br /><br />Vincent: Cultural issues matter for trailers. In some countries for Iron Man, you want to show the clips of him helping people, that's what heroes do. Alvin and the Chipmunks won't be a good sell in Japan, the CGI isn't going to play with expectations there.<br /><br />Pamela: Things that hamper international releases include access to your talent. Big issue - by the time you get the international distribution, often your talent is onto the next project, not available [to do or assist media events].<br /><br /><br />Q: Wouldn't you do the interviews onsite, like on set, release the content later when you need it?<br /><br />Pamela: You need the journalists from the relevant venues onsite to do the interviews (long explanation of process).<br /><br /><br /></span>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-83295423575685331882011-11-06T15:16:00.000-08:002011-11-06T15:19:54.914-08:00Sunday: Marketing panel #1, "Limited & Specialty Releases"<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> <w:validateagainstschemas/> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> 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style="text-align: center; font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" align="center"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 6, 2011 9 AM: Marketing Conference notes part 1, "Limited and Specialty Releases"<br /></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align: center; font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" align="center"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Notes by B. Hahne</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 3 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!"<span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A.<span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.<br /></span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">---------------------------------------</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Moderator: Mark Pogachefsky, co-founder, MPRM Communications (PR agency)</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Panelists:<br />- Jamie Patricof, Founder, Hunting Lane Films.<span style=""> </span>Independent producer.<br />- Dennis Rice, Founder, Vision Entertainment.<span style=""> </span>PR and marketing guy.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">- Wendy Cohen, Director of Digital Campaigns and Community for Participant Media / TakePart.<span style=""> </span>Participant Media: for "movies with a social message".<span style=""> </span>Wendy works on the social programs / initiatives that surround the movies.<span style=""> </span>The Visitor ; Food Inc; The Cove.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">- Scott Mansfield, CEO, Monterey Media, which is an independent distributor.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> --------------------</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: As we know, this is the much cooler panel than the second panel today which is about the larger-budget studio films.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: We got on the phone the other day to plan this panel, and the topic of having a marketing strategy came up.<span style=""> </span></span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Difficult as an indep producer to have a global strategy, yet you need one, whether it's Fbook, Twitter, web site.<span style=""> </span>Some sort of plan about how to use the media.<span style=""> </span>Fbook has become the most important place to be for an indep film.<span style=""> </span>You can start the Fbook page months before shooting begins.<span style=""> </span>Start to build community.<span style=""> </span>When I did Half Nelson 5 years ago it was via web site and it was very time-consuming, but now it's easy to establish a Fbook destination for your fans.<span style=""> </span>Get ahead of your messaging since info about your film will get out there no matter what.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Key message these days is you can't get started too early with marketing, and marketing means knowing who you're making the movie for.<span style=""> </span>Need to think about marketing costs, who you've made the movie for, how many of these people are out there, and what's the most effective way to reach them.<span style=""> </span>If there are only a few people you're making the movie for, then maybe it's not worth your time.<span style=""> </span>Know your audience and create a strategy to reach them.<span style=""> </span>When your production wraps, you want a solid base of information to let you reach your audience.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: The mission of our firm is to have films that will inspire social change.<span style=""> </span>When a film is greenlit, before any filming, we're identifying the nonprofit organizations that might be interested in the film and sharing the treatment, etc.<span style=""> </span>We bring the nonprofits into our community - their message will be heard within their communities.<span style=""> </span>We spend time thinking about what we'd like to galvanize our audiences to do.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: I'm the cautionary tale in the room here - yes, you should start early to craft a strategy about your audience and how to reach them.<span style=""> </span>But example: we tried to work with a company and they had put 7 funny clips up on Youtube months before we talked to them, so we weren't able to get those clips onto Funny or Die.<span style=""> </span>So timing matters WRT your assets - maybe you don't want to dump everything onto Youtube up front.<span style=""> </span>Use the assets that you have - do you have a cast member with 280K Fbook fans?<span style=""> </span>We have one film with a cast member like that, that's a big asset.<span style=""> </span>Try to reach your core audience, then widen your audience.<span style=""> </span></span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: Core audience are your best friends and they SHOULD get first look at everything.<span style=""> </span>Talk with them, not just TO them.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: that's the challenge in social media.<span style=""> </span>For one of my films, literally every single day there were photos coming out (leaked), and we didn't always want this.<span style=""> </span>But we did get 2K Fbook fans on somebody else's Fbook site for the film that we didn't even put up.<span style=""> </span>On the flipside, with another film we've been very careful to not release anything, maybe one still photo, yet we still want to build a community.<span style=""> </span>You want ambassadors - possibly you can use Klout to determine who these people are.<span style=""> </span>For people like Wendy to work through nonprofits to market the films, that works much better than us shouting on a rooftop trying to market directly to the consumers.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Media is fragmented today.<span style=""> </span>You need to understand more than ever how to reach your consumers.<span style=""> </span>Producers feel the pressure to not just make the movie, but to market the movie. And producers may feel obligated to cut a trailer, etc, and they put out assets in public and don't use them well.<span style=""> </span>[I.e. his point is that producers should be producing, not necessarily marketing, or if they try their hand at marketing they can mess it up.]<span style=""> </span>To me the internet is just another medium to reach your audience.<span style=""> </span>Figure out where your community spends its time - just randomly putting out assets in various places on the internet can be risky.<span style=""> </span>You're trying to compete with many other movies coming out every weekend - you need a calculated process for how and when to expose your product and where.<span style=""> </span>The exciting part for indep film is that there are many ways for people to consume your movie now.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Get your audience to take ownership of the project, get them to be "investors" in the film.<span style=""> </span>I do have several films I'm working on where I really don't know who the audience is, films under $1M budget. </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Yes, it's generally a good idea to make more money than you spend [ha].<span style=""> </span>We can have a tendency to forget that when we greenlight films.<span style=""> </span>It's often more expensive to market a film these days than to make the film.<span style=""> </span>You need to think through the resources that you need - you need another round of investment, or you need to raise the marketing funds up front.<span style=""> </span>If you just take something to Sundance you might get picked up and you might not.<span style=""> </span>If you don't, then you have a movie complete and you have NO more money to control your own destiny.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: Because often today's distributors are offering either a min guarantee OR a P&A commitment [i.e. not both, I think is his point.<span style=""> </span>And for the jargon-impaired, P&A = "print and advertising", industry-specific term which means much more than it sounds.]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: What about the idea that you're marketing for just the 12 people [distributors] who might BUY the movie [to distribute it]?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: At the end of the day you need to make the movie for the creative team, if you start thinking about what the distributor wants then that will impact the editing process, etc.<span style=""> </span>[But that's the point Jamie, that you need to make a movie that people WANT TO PAY FOR.<span style=""> </span>It may be worth noting that Jamie's suggestion to "make the movie for the creative team" is a red flag specifically called out by the head of IFTA in a presentation yesterday - he said that if your director says (s)he's making the movie for himself/herself, run very fast for the exit because you're not making a film that you can actually sell.] </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie (cont): You do need to provide assets to your distributors so they can sell the film. </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: I'm representing an animated family feature film here at AFM coming out of S. Africa.<span style=""> </span>We put together a marketing campaign: trailer, stills.<span style=""> </span>Music was by Allan Menken and Tim Rice - this is an asset that we can sell with.<span style=""> </span>My job was to generate inspiration for the distributors who might buy the film.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Sundance and Tribeca aren't always the good places to go, it depends.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: It's about strategy - you come to the table with an idea of your strategy and if you do the social media stuff that can help the distributors.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: We see pictures where the producers have already decided in advance that this is a festival picture, even before the final edits are done.<span style=""> </span>I had one case where I said "how do you know this is a Venice film festival picture, you haven't even seen the cut film yet!" but the producer said "we just think this is a festival play". <span style=""> </span>And it was completely the wrong type of movie to take to Venice festival, Venice is sophisticated, cynical, snobby.<span style=""> </span>It didn't get in, then it went to Toronto, then it died, never escaped from the bad buzz that surrounded it, that this maybe wasn't a very good film.<span style=""> </span>It wasn't a bad movie, it just made the wrong strategic decisions about release.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: Festivals can be a good strategy or maybe not.<span style=""> </span>There are so many festivals now.<span style=""> </span>If you won audience choice in Cleveland, I get on the phone to Cleveland and the theaters there tell me "yes, pretty much everybody in Cleveland who wanted to see this film has seen it".<span style=""> </span>Anybody who can say something nice about your film is OK, fine, you got to be an official selection, that is something.<span style=""> </span>But I have to deal with gatekeepers: I have to deal with the banner guy at iTunes who decides if the film gets to be in the special iTunes rotating film banner, I have to deal with the people at Blockbuster about not just whether they'll put the DVD in the rack, but whether they'll actually promote the movie in the store.<span style=""> </span>There was one film where we were able to bring in the Make-a-Wish Foundation, it was a good fit for their message, and they sent out like 4M emails to their base about the film - it was an 800-pound gorilla working for us.<span style=""> </span>You need to get somebody OTHER than you and your distributor saying it's a good film.<span style=""> </span>And BTW if you can get 13 year old girls saying it's a good film then you're golden.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: What about maintaining audience engagement? </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: We toss up a Fbook page right away.<span style=""> </span>We post questions, etc.<span style=""> </span>But we also create content for our films and do that well in advance.<span style=""> </span>For both Contagion and Waiting for Superman we created a separate animated piece which wasn't the film, it was, in a crass sense, an ad for the film, they were animated pieces about the issue.<span style=""> </span>Short videos for web, we can post them everywhere.<span style=""> </span>This starts to get people thinking about the issue.<span style=""> </span>Making these was a pain, we worked with an animation studio which donated some time, but important to create material to get the conversation going.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Agree, and put together a communication PLAN with a calendar so you roadmap what you're going to do, when are you going to release various content onto the internet?<span style=""> </span>And if you've got the right movie, use user-generated content.<span style=""> </span>Your audience may have relevant content to help promote the film.<span style=""> </span>Picture coming out later, "What to Expect when You're Expecting", and the campaign is soliciting user-generated content, baby pictures, so they're co-opting all these baby pictures.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: The challenge is that Wendy and Dennis are paid to do these things.<span style=""> </span>I work as a producer and I'm barely paid enough to survive, and I have these grand plans for the Fbook page and I'm going to do all this and that... but what happens when a film wraps [i.e. when primary shooting is over] is that everybody disappears, and I say "hey, wait, we have another 12 months of editing and marketing to go on this film!" but they all go away.<span style=""> </span>I have to move on to another film, and getting onto Fbook every day to do content for this film that's wrapped is really hard.<span style=""> </span>There are companies being created now which will do your social media marketing for you, but it costs money.<span style=""> </span>I don't necessarily even have enough money to pay for snacks for my crew today, so I sure don't have $20K to pay a social media management company.<span style=""> </span>So you need a plan.<span style=""> </span>You need a filmmaking team and be realistic - maybe you agree that somebody will spend 1 hour a day on social media.<span style=""> </span>Dennis and Wendy here aren't going to be there at the start of your film plans.<span style=""> </span>There was another case where I had an intern slated to do the social media content for the day, and then we had to send that guy out to get breakfast for the cameraman, so it was essentially "do you want breakfast, or do you want social media?"<span style=""> </span>Breakfast won.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: I would have shot the behind-the-scenes footage that day. [ha]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy:<span style=""> </span>How many zillion film schools are there in the US? <span style=""> </span>Anybody who goes to any film school in this country would love to be an unpaid intern for you doing your social media.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Did you see the lawsuit over that?<span style=""> </span>Somebody got sued over unpaid internships - Fox Searchlight lawsuit.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: You do the legal paperwork.<span style=""> </span>There are so many people who would take drastically reduced pay to work on one of these things, they'll do your Fbook and Twitter and become ambassadors for your project.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: I think there's a way you can create a plan and get the basics started.<span style=""> </span>There are a lot of resources out there.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: I agree that you have to give your distributor tools to help them sell the film, you need stills, etc.<span style=""> </span>[Somewhat repeating himself here...]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: The answer is that there is no answer, we're in the film business.<span style=""> </span>Every film is different and every film needs a CRAFTED strategy, which still might not work, the strategies don't always work even at the studio level.<span style=""> </span>Don't get depressed if you play a festival and it doesn't get distribution.<span style=""> </span>There are big statistics about films that play at Sundance and Toronto and never get distribution.<span style=""> </span>Of course there are always a small number of films that make it big even when going a year after a festival with no distribution.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: Different strategies for different times.<span style=""> </span>BTW if you get bought by Searchlight or Sony or whatever, they're going to want 100 production stills and so forth as well, just like anybody else.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">-------------------</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q&A TIME</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: Is there an easy to understand list of film festivals that gives you a synopsis of who to submit to and the tone of the festivals?<span style=""> </span>Like "Venice is snobby"?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: You need to do the research.<span style=""> </span>Look at comparable films and how they did in the market and how they did at festivals.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: We did a film about bees and got a beekeeper there at the festival to do Q&A.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: And remember that you can only PREMIERE once - if you really want Sundance, don't go to Ann Arbor first, then by definition you can't premiere at Sundance.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: And remember that going to festivals triggers a review by a critic, and you better hope that your movie is ready to be reviewed.<span style=""> </span>That review will be discoverable on the internet.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: Festival audience is an artificial audience, they tend to love film and be very supportive and they want to see lots of films in a few days - don't compare them with a real audience that's going to pay $10 to see your film.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: I'm a producer and I talk to writers about pre-production and pre-pre-production.<span style=""> </span>Can you share a book you'd recommend filmmakers read before they take on their first indep film?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">A1: _Adventures in the Screen Trade_</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Read case studies about films, there are lots of them out there.<span style=""> </span>See Sundance material for producers.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Landscape is changing so quickly that by the time a book comes out, the rules change again, so don't be dogmatic.<span style=""> </span>From a marketing perspective we have to reinvent ourselves every 6 months now to stay competitive.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: Case studies are good, they're fun.<span style=""> </span>BE part of the communities you think your film should be a part of, don't just show up on a site and say "Hi, I made this thing and I think you should share it / buy it."</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: _I Wake Up Screening_ is about the festival world.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: Used to be 2.5x cost of a film to do marketing.<span style=""> </span>Now with social media that price estimate for P&A is up to 3x.<span style=""> </span>What's up?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: There's no formula, you can't say if I spend $1M to make my film then I need $3M to reach the audience.<span style=""> </span>It depends on who the audience is and how to reach them.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Just spending money isn't the answer, and the filmmaking team can't just throw money at distributors and say "OK, go sell it" - you can't do a formula since every film is unique.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: It's how you spend the money, not how much money.<span style=""> </span>But there can be times that you have just enough money to be dangerous and not enough to be smart - maybe you spend $4M to market, which is a lot for indy films but it's nothing compared to a studio spend, which is $20M to $30M minimum per picture.<span style=""> </span>If you're competing with that, the movie that people will learn about is the one with $30M marketing spend, not your movie.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: By the way, I'm reading the tweets during this panel and would like to let you know that most people are enjoying it.<span style=""> </span>But my question is that if we have an issue-based film, and we're using Kickstarter... we're doing an assisted suicide comedy.<span style=""> </span>We're playing up that this is illegal but we're also trying to discuss this topic in film.<span style=""> </span>We have a strong "anti" side to our issue, i.e. people are opposed to this.<span style=""> </span>Is there a way that we can use them to help market the film?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: If we go back to Food Inc, and Waiting for Superman, there were large communities against these - "you're anti-farmer" etc.<span style=""> </span>And we wanted to have the conversation openly and honestly.<span style=""> </span>But we had to be very careful not to say certain things about certain companies so that we wouldn't get sued.<span style=""> </span>Even here [on this panel] I need to be careful not to mention certain company names.<span style=""> </span>What we did was a 1-hour event with the director, "this is the director speaking for himself" and that was very successful.<span style=""> </span>Our position with Waiting for Superman was "we're telling this story, there are many stories to be told, this is our story, let's talk about it".<span style=""> </span>If there's a way to respectfully embrace the anti side and have an open discussion, that's good.<span style=""> </span>And do it online - Fbook or Twitter or some other site.<span style=""> </span>[Incidentally, Waiting for Superman has been widely thrashed for being anti-union and for gross oversimplification of issues.<span style=""> </span>Just saying.]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: I'm doing a Master's in film marketing with a specialization in social media.<span style=""> </span>What are the innovations in social media and how are people misunderstanding them?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: I'm reminded of Blair Witch and how it internet-marketed itself.<span style=""> </span>After Blair Witch, the most common question I then got was "what should my web site look like?"<span style=""> </span>And my answer was this is the wrong question, you need to ask what your internet strategy is - find out where your audience spends time on the internet.<span style=""> </span>The question I NOW get is "what should I do on Fbook?"<span style=""> </span>or "what's my social media strategy?" but again, you need to look at where your customers are.<span style=""> </span>If you're not careful then your "social media strategy" can result in people who turn on you and suddenly your social media campaign backfires on you.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: Give an example.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: I'm working on a picture and we needed to use social media to recruit people who had seen the movie.<span style=""> </span>We did a bus tour [physical?] and a viral thing, created a groundswell.<span style=""> </span>Used social media to get our fans to promote the film.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: About raising P&A money along with your production budget.<span style=""> </span>Would you keep those monies separate, have separate investors?<span style=""> </span>Pitch separate funds to investors, or just one budget pool?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Probably need to treat it separately - you get people to invest in the P&A.<span style=""> </span>You also need [marketing?] experts.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: My feeling is that IF you can roll your P&A money into the same investment pool as your investors, then you're a god.<span style=""> </span>The people who give you money to make the film DESERVE the same treatment as your "last-in first-out" P&A investors, but that almost never happens.<span style=""> </span>Good to treat your film investors better - if you CAN do a single pool then do it.<span style=""> </span>Even if you have a $600K film and you can do it instead for $550K with $50K for marketing, distributors will like that.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: In today's marketplace the most common situation is you go to a festival with stars in your eyes about how wonderful things will be, then you don't get picked up, you have some distributor who comes along, maybe with a bit of P&A money, and you never make enough to pay off your equity investors.<span style=""> </span>By the way, if you're stealing from your P&A money to pay for post-production then you're doing yourself a disservice.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: About unpaid interns and unpaid positions.<span style=""> </span>Aren't we perpetuating a problem of expecting work-for-free?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: It's impossible to exist in indy film today without interns.<span style=""> </span>My company has 2-3 FT interns and 2-3 paid staff.<span style=""> </span>We had a company tell us "no interns" and we told them they were insane.<span style=""> </span>People are paying $40K for a year of film school, my 12 weeks I give an intern on set is worth more than that $40K, they should pay ME to be there.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: Especially if they can get course credit, it's good for the students.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: I had 3 interns this year and they were supposed to be office interns.<span style=""> </span>One ended up as the assistant on a film, another was a producer's assistant on set.<span style=""> </span>Their lives were changed by this.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">[Somehow I don't think that the "ungrateful wretches" pitch is the response that all those starving film school students living on instant ramen really needed to hear...]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: There are definitely rules and we're VERY strict about following the rules.<span style=""> </span>When the Searchlight thing came through [lawsuit], I went through it line by line to make sure we were OK with our intern system.<span style=""> </span>Of course, some of the interns don't like being locked up at night... [ha]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: For Wendy: I'm working on a project in Argentina, using Fbook.<span style=""> </span>I put out the script of the film online before it was filmed, so anybody can read the script on Fbook and give feedback.<span style=""> </span>Can that work in the US under the law?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: I don't know.<span style=""> </span>Sounds like you're crowdsourcing notes on the script.<span style=""> </span>I don't know about the legality of giving those people credit.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Mass Animation, run by the former head of Sony animation.<span style=""> </span>He has an animation creative cooperative online - recruited people around the world to generate ideas.<span style=""> </span>If an idea is chosen then they set up a professional relationship.<span style=""> </span>So these animators are contributing some of the content that goes into feature films.<span style=""> </span>Good way to generate ideas.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q [same guy]: About viral things, what viral things have been successful?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: At Disney, before Fbook, when MySpace was cool, we worked on Step Up, it had no stars.<span style=""> </span>We asked people to send in their own dance videos and we created a panel to judge them.<span style=""> </span>We chose the best to become part of the end credits but didn't tell anybody who won - you had to go see the movie to find out.<span style=""> </span>We think we got a lot of box office just from people going to see the movie to see if they were in the end credits.<span style=""> </span>Worked well.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: I just finished a film and have done a few private screenings.<span style=""> </span>Good audience response, bad critic response.<span style=""> </span>How do I deal with this?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">A1: Don't show it to the critics. [ha]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: The best marketing tool for your film, is your film.<span style=""> </span>If audiences are watching your film and people aren't walking out and telling people about your film, there's a problem.<span style=""> </span>If audiences like your film then maybe you do grassroots screenings, free screenings, whatever.<span style=""> </span>Not necessarily festivals.<span style=""> </span>Take your film to the public if the critics hate you.<span style=""> </span>You need people to like your film and Tweet their friends.<span style=""> </span>Sometimes you have to give it away to reach your larger goal.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Paranormal Activity, the first one, did midnight screenings etc.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: They also used Eventful, a tool that lets people say "I want this film to come to my city".</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: Go to blogs where your audience resides.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: I don't know who you've shown the movie to, but sometimes filmmakers surround themselves with people who tell you what you want to hear.<span style=""> </span>"A good movie deserves a good marketing campaign and a bad movie deserves an even better campaign" - you might need to open this up wider and have a really good marketing campaign.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Every critic is different, you can't just say "the critics".<span style=""> </span>We had critics who hated Blue Valentine, really hated us, yet the film was overall critically well received.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Dennis: Ask "who did I make this picture for?" and if that audience is responsive to critics, you're in trouble.<span style=""> </span>If it's the audience for Paranormal Activity or Twilight, who cares, those people aren't responsive to critics, they're the ones texting each other from the theater saying "I just saw the 7 PM show, don't bother seeing the 10 PM show, this movie sucks".</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: Thanks to Jamie for being realistic about producer time - most of these panels tell us indep producers to do all these different things, 1000 things we need to be doing.<span style=""> </span>To Scott: should the producers go hit the distribution offices early to build a strategy?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: Difficult to answer.<span style=""> </span>If you don't have a name actor or such, something to make somebody jump on board, it's tough.<span style=""> </span>My firm does NOT pre-buy, and we do NOT read scripts, we look only at completed motion pictures.<span style=""> </span>Because so much can go wrong along the way.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: How about a first look deal?<span style=""> </span>Or not worth it?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: If you're financed, don't do it.<span style=""> </span>If you're not financed, then maybe - I've sometimes written letters for people on my company letterhead that says "this sounds like a good idea, my company might be interested if this film is completed", but I always give myself the sentence at the bottom that says I don't have to do this necessarily.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mark: You probably want a sales agent, have that buffer.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: You mentioned "ambassador", what do you mean?<span style=""> </span>[Non-native English speaker was confused by the unusual use of the term here.]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: I meant the people we show early content to, we show them an early cut, people who are very interested.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: I have a social media problem.<span style=""> </span>I have X and Y and Z and Tshirts and a good pitch reel and 9K Fbook fans and have been working on this since 2007.<span style=""> </span>How do you balance building an audience with protecting the project?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: You mentioned those different assets, but they aren't the movie asset. That's GOOD - you haven't tossed the best 6 clips of your movie online already.<span style=""> </span>You have the CD, book, and Tshirt, grow that marketing machine without giving away the film assets.<span style=""> </span>You can put out the word on Twitter about who is in your film, but if your actor is somebody interesting to your audience, don't take 50 stills of your actor and dump them on the internet.<span style=""> </span>[I.e. save the stills for a more targeted, strategic marketing campaign.]</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Wendy: Right, people do still READ on the internet, you can talk about the movie in a way that's not giving away production assets.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: How effective is a tiered release in this market?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: And, [long strategy description which was impossible to follow], how effective is that in the US?</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Scott: Here in the US you're often going to have to 4-wall [this is a term of art, it means buying out theater space to show your film], plus pay for marketing and etc.<span style=""> </span>Back to the tiered release question, I'm in that business.<span style=""> </span>I'm not Fox Searchlight, though I did open [a film in] 200 theaters at one time, once, that wasn't nearly as much fun as I thought it would be. [I.e. he's implying that it sucked to do it.]<span style=""> </span>My firm generally open 3-5 markets at once: the top 10 cities etc., and then we see what happens.<span style=""> </span>Maybe we decide to play more cities because the critics liked it but nobody saw the movie.<span style=""> </span>But if you're losing money on theatrical then you typically stop, because you're just digging a deeper hole.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">I like doing limited theatricals for indy films, you can try different approaches, maybe your poster sucked and you need a new poster, so you try a different poster in the new cities.<span style=""> </span>But if you play 200 venues at once then you're done.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Q: On timing of Fbook page WRT preproduction - please comment more.</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">Jamie: Start early, but you must continue to engage with your community, otherwise they won't come back.<span style=""> </span>You have to keep giving them assets and things to make them want to come back.<span style=""> </span>People are fickle, they won't say "I checked this Fbook site a month ago, maybe I'll go check it again."</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">------------------------</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">BREAK and end of first panel</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;">-------------------------</span></span></p> <p style="font-family: times new roman;font-family:trebuchet ms;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size:100%;"><span style="font-size:12pt;"> </span></span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-38078331458894029392011-11-05T16:00:00.000-07:002011-11-06T16:51:40.928-08:00Saturday training talk: "How to Work the AFM"<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-size:100%;" >Saturday Nov. 5, 2011, 4 PM<br />"How to Work the AFM"<br />by Johnathan Wolf, Executive VP and Managing Director, AFM<br /><br />notes by B. Hahne<br /><br />The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br /><br />Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /><br />These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne. Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.<br /><br />Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!" There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the talk plus Q&A. They also probably contain errors. I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.<br /><br />--------------------------------<br /><br />[This is an intro talk given every year for newcomers to the AFM show. See also the official written variation, not by Bruce, at www.americanfilmmarket.com/attendee/first-time-attendees However, this spoken talk by the head of the AFM has much more information than the web page.]<br /><br />About the IFTA: the IFTA produces AFM. We're for independents. How do we define "independent"? Our definition is: "51%+ of the risk is taken by someone other than one of the big 7 studios." The budget isn't relevant. Lord of the Rings was an indep. Twilight is an indep.<br /><br />IFTA: we're international, not [just] domestic US. IFTA is just for distributors, not producers. IFTA has about 33 employees and 6 of them are staff attorneys. The average film can have 75 to 120 legal licenses. We work to standardize licenses so that people don't have to write contracts from scratch - you start with our stuff and modify. Compare the California Realtors Association - it's similar, they have stock documents available for their members for selling real estate.<br /><br />We have the IFTA "model license agreements" - we estimate those are used 50K to 100K times per year. Licensing is complex, e.g. what does "I want to license this for all French-speaking audiences" mean?<br /><br />We also run an arbitration program which is used ~130x/year, so about twice per week on average. <br /><br />We have a research department. We can tell you the blu-ray penetration in Argentina. We can give you all box office receipts, not just for the big movies, for ALL movies, in all countries in multiple currencies, local and dollars.<br /><br />Now let's talk about the AFM. The AFM is a trade show. Sellers have booths [these are mostly offices, actually, but whatever.] Buyers visit the booths. We use a hotel rather than a convention center due to sound bleed - we like walls, because sellers are showing their films in their [rented] offices on-site and that doesn't work in a convention center.<br /><br />Film is perishable - you want to move product quickly once it's complete. So this is an appointment-based show. Most people here have set their appointment calendars weeks in advance [for this show]. We estimate that ~$800M in business will be transacted here, at this convention, right now. About 50% of that spend will be for films not yet in production.<br /><br />Are there any buyers here in the audience? [Only 3 hands out of audience of 150. Oops. Maybe they're all in their booths since they know what they're doing and don't need to attend the newbie training!]<br /><br />OK, let's talk about producers. I break down producers into three main roles, very different:<br /><br />1. The creative producer. This person works to nurture the writer, locks him/her in a room until the script is done, works on story elements. The creative producer's focus is to generate a great CREATIVE PRODUCT.<br /><br />2. The sales producer. This person pitches the movie, sells the movie. This is a hard job, not that many people are good at it, and they might get paidmore.<br /><br />3. The line producer: good with budgets, execution, make it happen, work with the unions, etc. This producer takes the completed script and gets the budget and herds the cats and produces a finished film [which is presumably not yet sold].<br /><br />Now the thing is, good producers are usually experts at ONE of these three roles and then they know how to assemble a TEAM OF PEOPLE to do the rest. You can't do it all yourself, the theory of skill transferability does NOT hold, you can't do all three of these just because you happen to be good at one of them.<br /><br />So, at this morning's pitch conference, what we saw were a lot of CREATIVE producers trying to act like SALES producers. It didn't work well. [I.e. most of those people sucked at pitching... yes, it was true.] Sales is hard.<br /><br />At the AFM: you can sell both finished film, and unfinished film.<br /><br />By contrast, there are thousands of film FESTIVALS worldwide each year. Festivals have curation. They are for people who like to see movies.<br /><br /><br />There are only 4 film markets worldwide, i.e. trade shows like this one. There is no curation here - you can bring whatever you want. These four film markets are:<br />1. AFM [you are here]<br />2. Berlin, held at the same time as the Berlin film FESTIVAL, so easy to get confusd.<br />3. Cannes, held at the same time as the Cannes film FESTIVAL, so again easy to get confused.<br />4. Hong Kong Film Market [FILMART]<br /><br />Sundance is special, that was created for the benefit of the film industry, not film audiences, but they're an outlier case. If you live near Sundance, you get OUT of town when Sundance comes to town, nobody who lives there wants to be there when Sundance happens.<br /><br />For success at AFM: you do your homework and come to do presales, knowing that you need a specific presales percentage of certain countries. And you try to get that percentage, and if you get it, then typically you get to greenlight your film.<br /><br />Presales is about RISK TRANSFER. Presales transfers risk to the buyer - they give you money up front hoping for a good product. Many sales companies (sellers) here are risk-averse [so they want to do lots of presales]. Other companies want a larger upside [so they won't presell as much.]<br /><br />Now, about presales of a film. Ask yourself, which is easier to presell?<br />1. A Jean-Claude Van Damme film, 5th in a continuing series, with a known, reachable audience that has already purchased the first 4 films.<br />2. Or, the script to Brokeback Mountain.<br /><br />The obvious answer is that the former is easier to presell. The risks are well understood. You know how much money that 5th movie is going to make.<br /><br />Dramas are hard to presell.<br />Talky comedies are hard to presell. Pratfall comedies are easier to presell.<br /><br />This problem of risk is why we see a strong "stick to the genre" approach. [It's also worth noting that in the pitch conference Saturday morning, one of the early ground rules that the panelists gave was that you must state your film's genre up front when pitching. The buyer wants to know the genre. Frustrating but apparently true.]<br /><br />Q: Can you presell a story only, without a lot attached, no stars, no director yet?<br />A: If it's 3D and CGI and has monsters, maybe. But really I'm not the expert, you should go ask the 400 exhibitors upstairs [in the rental offices in the Loews conference hotel].<br /><br />BTW, 70% of revenue on U.S. pictures is from non-US sources these days, so you need to know where your audience is.<br />Indep film producers are at a disadvantage compared to the studios, because the media often won't cover films without a release date. You call them and they say "when is it coming out?" and you say "we don't know, we don't have a distributor yet!" and the reporter says "well, call us when you have a release date."<br /><br />There are 1500 buyers here from ~70 countries. The sellers are here to do an auction process with their films, effectively auction them to the buyers.<br /><br />About film festivals: the WORST thing you can do with a finished independent film is to put it into a festival. [Bruce says: this is a hardline approach compared to the positions taken by the various "how to distribute your independent film" books I've been looking at. I think most indep film producers would still say that festivals can/might have a legitimate role in the distribution strategy for a film. However there are definitely a lot of bad stories about films that went to festivals to die.]<br /><br />Why is it bad to do festivals? You put it in the festival. This triggers reviews, you get reviewed. The reviews go onto the internet. They are now global reviews. You don't control the audience. You don't even know if there are ANY buyers in the audience. You often don't even know what time of day or when your film will show at the festival.<br /><br />Here is what to do instead of festivals: Set up a 10 AM or 3 PM acquisitions screening in Los Angeles, New York, and maybe in London. Not at 7 PM, you put it at 10 AM or 3 PM during the work day, this is business for the acquisitions people, remember. You want an auction-like environment. Invite the right acquisitions people to your event.<br /><br />Don't send a DVD or screeners. "Never do this". [It was mentioned in one of the panels that when the distribution guy says "send me a DVD", he's telling you what's convenient for HIM, not what's best for you to sell your movie.] Even if you send them a Blu-ray, often the resolution is only SD, which is 2 levels worse than what buyers are going to see if you show the film in an actual screening room / theater. With DVDs you don't own the event - the guy is putting it into his DVD player at home and maybe he's surrounded by screaming kids, you don't have his attention. DVDs say "my film doesn't matter", and "buzz" only lasts a week.<br /><br />If your acquisitions screening efforts don't work THEN you might try festivals. But more pictures die at Sundance than find distribution at Sundance.<br /><br />Q: What about the AFI film festival which is hitched to AFM? [It's true, there's a mini-festival, but I think it's separate from AFM, run by separate people, not IFTA.]<br /><br />A: Sometimes festivals work, but not often. Note also, that if your film is a showcase piece to show off the SKILLS of a director, that's a different story - in that case you're not chasing money, you have different desired outcomes.<br /><br />Only 500 English-language films get made each year. [Really that low?] But thousands of scripts get written each year.<br /><br />I asked a director: "who are you making this film for". The director said "for me, obviously". If the director says this, RUN. You need to know your target demographic - it impacts everything. You need to be thinking about ratings: G, PG13, R [i.e. if you're targeting a certain demographic then you need to target the right rating.]<br /><br />People ask me: why not just sell my film internationally myself? Why do I need a sales agent? The answer is that buyers can't buy one of every film. Most producers know nothing about international deliverables requirements. It's nasty [putting all the deliverables together]. When buyers see producers selling their own films, they think "well, this will probably be a headache" and so they're going to make you a low offer to compensate for the headache.<br /><br />We get [film] producers here [at AFM] every year who buy office space with us [in the hotel, i.e. they get one of the official AFM temporary offices], and I call them and ask, "do you really want to do this? You shouldn't do this", and inevitably they assure me that they know what they're doing. And then within 2 weeks after AFM I always get multiple angry emails about how much AFM sucks because they bought this rental office and nobody came to buy their film. The buyers are blocking out their meeting calendars weeks in advance - they're not going to walk into your rental office door just because you got an office and opened the door.<br /><br />About pitching and what names to drop:<br />- If somebody is "attached" to a project, it's OK to talk about that. Somebody has made a commitment, they are "attached".<br />- If somebody is "interested" in your project, that's irrelevant, don't talk about it, who cares.<br /><br />Q: I have a script, not a film, how do I sell just my SCRIPT? [Another in a series of starving artists who are probably at the wrong convention, wrong place.]<br /><br />A: Many of the sales companies here [in the rental offices] do get involved in some level of funding or preparation. Some will even work with writers. Some are pure production companies - Lions Gate does read scripts, but they don't do that here at AFM, that's a completely different process, reading scripts. Many firms are here only to look for films in a package ready to sell. That's what they do, they buy film packages and sell [distribute] them. [There's some potential terminology confusion here, in the sense that "buyers" at AFM later turn around and become "sellers" or "distributors" of that same film within their local international markets. More on the meanings of words is coming up later, please stand by.]<br /><br />Q: We have a film entering postproduction, it's a 4.5 hour pseudo-documentary, what should we do?<br />A: AFM is about long-form content, though that content isn't always aimed at theaters. BTW, you need to know your target medium - is it TV, cinema, something else? If you're filming a TV project and you show it in ONE theater somewhere, that can trigger all kinds of residuals payments - it's a big mess.<br /><br />Q: Do you have any advice for TV [productions]?<br />A: Long-form content, or a series?<br />Q: It's a series.<br />A: That doesn't happen here at AFM [you're in the wrong place].<br /><br />Q: Is there a directory of buyers?<br />A: Well, not one that I'll share with you. [ha, i.e. I'm not going to put my rolodex up for public view]<br /><br />Q: I want to sell into Europe. A documentary. Can I sell this on my own?<br />A: What does a documentary sell for in Italy at prime-time rates?<br />Q: Um...<br />A: That's my point. The sales people upstairs KNOW the answer to that question, and you should work with them.<br /><br />To check out people, in this business you can check everybody's references. Go into the sales agent's office, look at the 7 movie posters on the wall, then call the producers of those 7 films and find out what their experience was working with that sales agent. [There's your background check.]<br /><br />Q: How do we know normal seller's agent fees?<br />A: I'll give you the broadest range: 5% to 25%. And it's a HIGHER percentage for films with SMALLER budgets.<br /><br />Q: About language, you said "sales rep" and you said "distributor", I'm confused.<br />A: OK, what I call a "buyer" is called a "distributor" in their home country. They might sell or distribute DVDs, or they own a TV network, or whatever. Here at AFM I use the words "distributor" and "sales agent" interchangeably - I might say "we have 400 distributors upstairs [in the hotel in rental offices.]"<br /><br />[Bruce's attempt to make a simplified movie-chart:<br /> Filmmaker / producer ----> Distributor aka sales agent aka seller ----> buyer aka "distributor" in buyer's home country ----> End consumer/viewer of the movie.]<br /><br />[At AFM, the "sellers" come typically with a set of films packaged and ready to sell. The sellers rent office space; the buyers -- who are called "distributors" when they step off the plane in their home country -- do not. The buyers run around to all of the rented hotel offices following their appointment calendars set up weeks in advance, and they make offers on the film packages.]<br /><br /><br />Q: How can I get in front of Weinstein group here to sell them my movie?<br />A: You won't. Their production people aren't even here. Weinstein Group is here to SELL product, not to buy product.<br /><br />Q: What keywords do I look for if I'm trying to sell my movie?<br />A: "Acquisitions" is usually about finished or nearly-finished products [that's what "director of acquisitions" would mean]. "Development" is usually involved much earlier in the production process.<br /><br />Q: I'm here to find a sales JOB. Any advice?<br />A: Um... I could make some pithy comment about how you might want to find some other career. Part of it is about your background.<br /><br />Q: How about people selling [film] product here, who don't have a room [office], is that productive?<br />A: That's sort of like selling a home from a park bench. You're not going to sit in the hotel lobby and get acquisitions people to listen to you. This situation happens with producers who took half of my advice when I told them "don't get an office here, it won't work for you", and they take me literally and they don't get an OFFICE here but they still try to SELL THEIR FILM here at AFM, without an office. [Doesn't work.]<br /><br />Q: I'm looking for projects to fund, how can I find good projects without visiting every booth [office] here on all 8 floors of the hotel?<br /><br />A: You're looking to fund projects? OK, we'll take a 10-minute break and let everybody here swarm this guy. [ha]. You should write down the 5 things that you MUST have for projects that you want, write them down on one sheet of paper, give that sheet plus your business card to every seller here [in the offices], then you're done. That will take you one day, then spend the rest of the days at the beach.<br /><br />[Closing remarks:]<br /><br />Fundamentally, here is the thing: We have an industry filled with ARTISTS WHO CAN'T AFFORD THEIR CANVAS. This generates passion, both good passion and bad passion. You need to focus on your AUDIENCE to get a better chance of success. Most of the pitches this morning at the pitch conference were clearly "passion projects" with no focus on audience.<br /><br />People ask me: "who should my role model producer be?" and they name big-name producers. But here is what to do. The next time you just sat through a crappy movie in the theater, and you turn to the person you went to the movie with and say "that movie was a total piece of crap!", write down the name of every producer in the credits. These are the producers who know how to get crap distributed. Then call those producers and say "how did you get that crap on the screen?" Because they did it... and YOUR film will be better than THEIRS.<br /><br />[I'm going to assume that that last bit is a stock closing joke he uses, though it's somewhat difficult to tell.]<br /><br /></span>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-3896510982119905962011-11-05T13:20:00.000-07:002011-11-06T15:23:21.257-08:00Saturday: Pitch conference part 1<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes</span><br /><span style="font-family: trebuchet ms;">Nov 5, 2011 9 AM: Pitch Conference notes part 1</span><br /><span style="font-family: trebuchet ms;">Notes by B. Hahne </span><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 2 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.</span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!"<span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A.<span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.</span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------------------------------<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Moderator: Stephanie Palmer of "Good in a Room", previously with MGM.<span style=""> </span>Listened to >3000 pitches at MGM, 7+ years.<span style=""> </span>Got tired of hearing badly-pitched ideas.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Panelists:</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin Armbrust, SVP, Exclusive Media Group.<span style=""> </span>Was with Warner Bros.<span style=""> </span>Produced Let Me In and Firewall.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian Elwes<span style=""> </span>[not to be confused with Cary Elwes], independent producer and agent.<span style=""> </span>Works on a variety of known films at any given time.<span style=""> </span>William Morris for 15 years.<span style=""> </span>"I'll be the not-so-nice guy today, Tobin will be the nice guy."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------------<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">There's been a pitch event at previous AFMs.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">[This event is going to be just like those startup tech company cattle calls done in the San Francisco Bay Area to a panel of venture capitalists.<span style=""> </span>Audience members will do a 3-minute pitch to the panel, then 3 minutes for comment.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"><br /></span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">But first, some training material from the moderator:<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">1. "Redefining what a pitch is"<br />- You need to think about the Q&A that happens with the person after you give your 30-second mini-speech.<br />- At this particular event, and in most pitch settings, your goal is to get a 2nd meeting.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitch, her definition: "a set of possibilities for what you could say about your project, which depends on context and the listener."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">2. What do the film buyers want?<span style=""> </span>Think about situations where you've been a buyer of something.<br />- High risk.<span style=""> </span>Current estimates are $106M average for a studio film today.<br />- They want you to succeed.<span style=""> </span>No buyer says "I hope none of my meetings succeed this week."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">"Short pitch": a 1 to 3 sentence project synopsis which is clear, concise, compelling.<span style=""> </span>Then let the buyer decide if they want to hear more.<span style=""> </span>The mistake that most people make is trying to cram 20 minutes of content into this 3-minute pitch interval, which results in information overload to the buyer, you talking extremely fast, and no productive results.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">3. Improving your short pitch.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- "Embrace pitching as part of the creative process".<span style=""> </span>Work on your pitch as you work on the script / screenplay.<span style=""> </span>Most screenplay writers will say that they do this.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Pitching is verbal and doesn't always come easily to writer-types.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Pitching is sharing your idea with somebody else and you might get negative feedback, which is painful.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Many of you have a lot of ideas, more story ideas than you'll be able to tell.<span style=""> </span>Pitching can be a filtering / selection process.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"><br /></span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">4. Specific advice</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Start your short pitch with the genre.<span style=""> </span>Lead with the genre.<span style=""> </span>This provides context.<br />- Example: if you say "my project is about the CIA", that's not genre, and you've probably misled your buyer if your project is a comedy.<br />- Name as few characters as possible.<span style=""> </span>This is to avoid information overload for the buyer.<span style=""> </span>If you need to refer to supporting characters, refer to them by role and how they interact with your main character.<span style=""> </span>"Lisa's father, who is a scientist".<br />- Be brief.<span style=""> </span>No buyer has ever said "I wish that person had talked longer".<br />- Identify patterns of feedback from the buyer.<span style=""> </span>Body language and etc. from the buyer.<span style=""> </span>Watch for nods, smiles, being confused, interest in details, what questions they ask.<br />- What question did the buyer ask FIRST?<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Don't do these things:</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Don't give a positive opinion of your own work.<span style=""> </span>"This is a really funny script!"<span style=""> </span>"This project is going to win X, be #1" etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Don't refuse to categorize your project.<span style=""> </span>"My project is unique and incredibly difficult to define".<span style=""> </span>Translation: "my project isn't ready to sell to anybody yet."<span style=""> </span>No bookstore has a section called "books that defy categorization".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Don't mention people involved unless they have... wait for it... "skin in the game".<span style=""> </span>"Famous person X loves my script!"<span style=""> </span>Really?<span style=""> </span>If person X loves your script then why isn't person X funding it or committed to starring in it?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">- Don't be argumentative in the room, in the meeting.<span style=""> </span>The producer might say "please change your female lead into a male chimpanzee" - this is true, it happened once - and you just nod and say "I hadn't thought about that idea, let me consider it and get back to you."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q for panelists: what's the best pitch you've heard recently.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: _Patrick 1.5_, gay couple trying to adopt a baby who turns out to be 15 years old not 1.5 years old.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What's the difference in how you pitch for different audiences?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: buyer pitch vs. talent pitch very different.<span style=""> </span>To buyers you're trying to communicate the commercial idea + how the buyer will later market the idea.<span style=""> </span>If your idea is good enough then it will end up as one line of text on the poster.<span style=""> </span>The best ideas are the ideas for which you can already imagine the poster.<span style=""> </span>But for talent, the talent is thinking about the character (s)he will play.<span style=""> </span>And to directors, they're thinking visually, can they do something they haven't done before, can they stretch themselves artistically, can the movie be different but also be marketplace competitive?<span style=""> </span>So the way you talk to creatives is very different from how you talk to finance people.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Context matters.<span style=""> </span>I'm always thinking "is this something I can finance?<span style=""> </span>What's the appeal, is it both foreign and domestic, which in my case I need?"<span style=""> </span>If you're going after somebody as an actor or director, you need to know about the person's life and try to not pigeonhole them.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What types of research do you do prior to pitching?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I get a lot of pitches for movies that are already being made, very similar ideas.<span style=""> </span>And then I say "a very similar movie is already being made" and they're crushed.<span style=""> </span>Read the trade magazines and learn what other people are doing, it's a waste of your time if you try to create a movie that's already happening.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Read scripts!<span style=""> </span>It's rare for scriptwriters to pitch directly to studios.<span style=""> </span>Read what your peers are writing.<span style=""> </span>If you want to see a fantastic script, read _Social Network_.<span style=""> </span>You need to learn the trade craft.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: People sometimes suggest using an "X meets Y" pitch - "it's Jaws meets The Wire!"<span style=""> </span>Yes, I had somebody pitch that to me.<span style=""> </span>Is that a good idea?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I get that a lot and it's annoying.<span style=""> </span>And usually the movie doesn't turn out to be that anyway, it's just a hook.<span style=""> </span>You still need to get to the actual story.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: It was originally intended as a shortcut but now it's annoying.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: I agree too - it distracts and people start asking "how is it like X, how is it like Y?"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: When do you pitch to others?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: every day I pitch internally to my coworkers - we do finance and foreign sales.<span style=""> </span>Sometimes I need to convince chairman we want to buy something, sometimes I have to convince our foreign sales wing to sell something.<span style=""> </span>I fight as many battles inside my company as outside. <span style=""> </span>Outisde, you're pitching to agents about why they should bring their packages to us instead of to somebody else, sometimes you're pitching to talent.<span style=""> </span>We hear "no" all the time, even us in the finance busines.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I'm a producer, sort of an executive producer.<span style=""> </span>People bring me movies and I help find the talent or the financing - presales, foreign sales agent, equity investors, soft money (tax credits), the entire pattern of making an indy film is going through my mind, and you have to talk to a huge number of people to make this happen.<span style=""> </span>So many different people, and you're talking about the movie all the time in this process.<span style=""> </span>I find myself refining how I talk about the movie through this process - I watch where people laugh, when they looked at their watch, how they respond to what I'm saying.<span style=""> </span>Hardest thing in this business isn't getting "yes, I'll do that", it's getting somebody to actually write the investment check.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: How did you hear about a good project for the first time?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: We get scripts more than we get pitches.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: At AFM last year I was driving up and had a project called Medallion, an action film.<span style=""> </span>Then I got a call saying it fell apart.<span style=""> </span>I said hang on, I thought Nick Cage wanted to do that movie and they said yes but X and Y and Z... so I put him on hold, made one phone call and said "I have a movie with Nick Cage and X directing" - they said "how much do you need", I said "$28M" and the guy said "done", so that was nice to be able to close a project with just two phone calls.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: I remember the guy who did a pitch just wearing a diaper and the guy who used a samurai sword.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Did either of those movies get made?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Of course not.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: You should have introduced them to each other and made a movie about a guy in a diaper with a samurai sword, I would have gone to see that.<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">PITCH: [The guy has a prop, something on a trophy.<span style=""> </span>Reading notes from his mobile phone.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Stop reading from your mobile, you have to talk to me not to your phone.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy (puts mobile away): We have 7K Facebook Fans and 500K Youtube views. The film is done, we shot it for $500K</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: What's the movie?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: Ballroom dance comedy, kid overcomes his life obstacles to become a champion ballroom dancer.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">C: You should have started with that, I want to know about the movie not the number of fans.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: And it stars me.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: You should have said that up front, that's crucial information.<span style=""> </span>Do you dance?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: After 4 months of ballroom training, yes.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">[Mini exhibition on stage in which guy gets asked to demo his dance moves.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: What you're struggling with here is how to sell what your movie is about, it's cute that you could get this audience on your side, but you don't have that opportunity when you're pitching 1-to-1. <span style=""> </span>I don't know if it's a comedy, is it Nacho Libre, is it heartwarming, what is it?<span style=""> </span>I give you kudos for just going and making the film, that's fantastic.<span style=""> </span>But if you're going to pitch me to get me to watch your film, I don't care about Youtube views, you need to lead with "this is what it's about, this is why it's personal" </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Is it a comedy, thriller, romcom, what is it?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: comedy</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: physical comedy like pratfalls?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: Yes.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: OK that matters, I didn't know if it was coming-of-age or what.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">PITCH: from Ugha of S. Africa</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">U: I have two pitches [oh please].<span style=""> </span>One is about X who has an extraterrestrial lover and somebody is a meteorologist and 23 scientists got hand-picked in 1975 and flew somebody to Germany where she got examined.<span style=""> </span>It's an incredible love story that transcends barriers.<span style=""> </span>And it's set in the same place that 2012 was filmed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">The other film is about somebody abducted by 2 men and she was raped and stabbed and disembowled and left for dead, and she survived by a miracle and told her story a year later and she wants you to know what a miracle it is that she survived.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">[I couldn't possibly make these up, this is what she's pitching...]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Well.<span style=""> </span>I thought you told both stories well.<span style=""> </span>I'm not sure I want to see the 2nd one since it sounds so graphic and horrible and difficult to see on screen.<span style=""> </span>With the first one, was she married to the alien?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: The first might have more potential, sounds a bit like K-pax.<span style=""> </span>The science part is dry.<span style=""> </span>Makes for a good 3rd act set piece from a story sense, but in terms of build it doesn't work.<span style=""> </span>Get some humor in it.<span style=""> </span>For the 2nd idea I'd never want to see that, I'd rather subject myself to Harold and Kumar in 3D down the street.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: You didn't pitch a genre, you pitched a true story of a person who got disembowled.<span style=""> </span>I'd focus on the 1st story, personally.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: BTW for those of you with accents like Ugha, if you're pitching to Americans you might need to speak more slowly.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">----------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: My idea is for a legal drama for the 1st prosac case, the guy killed 20 people and then killed himself.<span style=""> </span>Main character learns from FDA whistleblower that the pharma firm knew that the drug could cause violent side effects but hid it from the FDA.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Sounds like a John Grisham story.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: Yes but it's true.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">C: I'd like to know a bit more about the outcome of the trial, who the woman was.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: OK but Stephanie said be short today.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">C: I'd like to know the ending, is it a great up ending?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: Actually it's one of the most cynical manipulations of the legal system in history.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">C: It would help me to know that as a buyer.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: OK, the pharma firm Lily was facing 260 lawsuits at the time and was highly leveraged and needed to win one case, so they thought they could win this case due to the history of the shooter.<span style=""> </span>They went to trial and 3 months in the judge reversed himself and etc. etc. etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: OK, you need to learn to share these details using fewer words.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Needs some kind of sizzle, you need to construct a story within the pitch. <span style=""> </span>The details are fine but you need to shorthand them.<span style=""> </span>Your initial pitch was just 1 minute, that was good.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Yes but he didn't tell us the story.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I need to know who the lead character is, make people nefarious, add a bit of Hollywood.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: It's all in the script.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Yes but you're here to pitch.<span style=""> </span>Your delivery was dry and unexciting.<span style=""> </span>If I were pitching it back I'd go "there's this evil pharma company, and this first-time lawyer!"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: right, make the movie version, not the legal details.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: I'm from Argentina and I put my card there because xyz.<span style=""> </span>I'm a close friend of a writer in Argentina who won some award and have a partner in the U.S. and have the rights to some movie and Shirley Maclaine wants to be in the movie, we have $6.5M budget with $3M committed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I have no idea what your movie is about.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Yes but he has money.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Tell us what the movie is about.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: Some people are spending their money and going to Rome and somebody is in love with somebody else and a guy's wife has died and somebody starts having an affair and some money from an old man that was supposed to go to his daughter ends up somewhere else.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Is this a drama?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: It's more of a romantic comedy.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: When did the movie get made?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: 2005.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Do you have a screenplay?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: We have a translation, rewriting to adapt it for US, and director of X lined up.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I'd put that information forward.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I wouldn't start off with all the money you have.<span style=""> </span>Say "this movie was a huge hit in Argentina and Spain, it's a romantic comedy with Shirley MacLaine and Michael Caine, she wants to go to Rome, it's based on a hit movie, it's already worked, I've got a wonderful director, it's only going to cost $6.5M and I've already got $3M"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: See there he just did the pitch.<span style=""> </span>Cassian demonstrated how to take the identical project and END with the punch that says "Oh and by the way, we already have half the money."</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">------------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">BREAK<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" 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</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align: center;font-family:times new roman;" align="center"><span style="font-size:100%;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 5, 2011 11 AM: Pitch Conference notes part 2<br />Notes by B. Hahne</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 2 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!"<span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A.<span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.</span></p><p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------------------------------<br /></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitches continue!</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: I'm in L.A. and work for ABC Universal.<span style=""> </span>Project is called Amazon Queen is a comedy and buddy film, modern day Robin Hood who is female who kidnaps a drag queen as a hostage, [and then the fun begins], and that turns out to be a mistake.<span style=""> </span>Lulu the drag queen is a human rights attorney in NY in his day job and doesn't like being kidnapped.<span style=""> </span>The two of them discover that they can turn to each other when they need support.<span style=""> </span>And etc. etc...</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: OK, you're starting to ramble at the end.<span style=""> </span>For a movie that you said was a comedy, there was not much laughter from the audience as you pitched.<span style=""> </span>I'm not sure how to repitch that to make it sound more funny.<span style=""> </span>The Brazilian Robin Hood and the drag queen is an interesting pairing, but I don't know, nothing in it made me say wow, that's really funny.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Wild premise... somehow you need to grab us, maybe pitch a scene.<span style=""> </span>Have you written this?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: I have a first draft.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: OK as background info, generally speaking in Hollywood, pitches are reserved for "high concept" ideas.<span style=""> </span>If you're pitching Little Miss Sunshine or Priscilla Queen of the Desert, it always comes down to the script, nobody buys based on a pitch for those films.<span style=""> </span>If you've done the work and written the script, get my attention and make me laugh, and then we can move on to let me read the script.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: You can go for the cheap laugh by saying, like, I'm going to get George Clooney to play the drag queen, which is the laugh because of course George Clooney isn't going to do that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: takeaway for this one seems to be that the pitch needs to live up to the genre.<span style=""> </span>If it's a comedy then the short pitch needs to be funny.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Nancy the pitcher: I'm in the WGA and I wrote a script called Glow Worms, comedy, script won X contest.<span style=""> </span>The year is 1969, war, riots, man on the moon, hippies.<span style=""> </span>Women are just starting to discover that they have brains that really work well.<span style=""> </span>[Yes that's how she phrased it.]<span style=""> </span>There are 3 girls who decide to beat the boys at the annual science fair, and they decide to build a fission reactor in their backyard.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: OK that was good, it makes me want to read the script, but you don't need to tell me you're in the WGA up front.<span style=""> </span>I was thinking oh my god, the unions are going to get me.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I like the delivery.<span style=""> </span>I thought you'd lose me when you said 1969 since only Cassian here remembers 1969.<span style=""> </span>Maybe a bit more detail on the backend since you were on a roll when talking about the girls.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Note how she set up the feeling and the year without a lot of words/detail.<span style=""> </span>I got excited by listening to her feeling excited.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Troy the pitcher: comedy TV series about a washed-up golfer turned exterminator who gets a 2nd chance.<span style=""> </span>He has to get off the driving range to get away from his psycho girlfriend, gets found by an ex-gambler.<span style=""> </span>There's a built-in audience of golfers.<span style=""> </span>New fresh comedy, new look on something that's old and dried up.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: You've lost me.<span style=""> </span>That's dull delivery.<span style=""> </span>You don't seem excited.<span style=""> </span>And you've already got a beginning, middle and end, that's a 90-minute movie not 100 hours of TV series content.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Troy: A lot of drama could happen with the girlfriend, she hates golf.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Remember Tin Cup?<span style=""> </span>I'd go watch that. <span style=""> </span>Watch it as an exercise and try to pitch it.<span style=""> </span>You're pitching a show about a washed-up golfer and you need to start with passion about that world.<span style=""> </span>Particularly for a TV show you need to pitch a world.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Give us an idea of who would play the golfer.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Troy: We've got the guy who played the general in Terminator 3.<span style=""> </span>[Cassian makes a face.]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I MADE Terminator 3 and even I don't remember that guy.<span style=""> </span>[Ouch]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I don't do much TV, but if you walk in the door and tell me that the stars are some guy we never heard of, it's over.<span style=""> </span>People want to cast stars on TV, they're thinking Tom Selleck as the ex-golfer.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Focus on the world, focus on the character, think somebody like House, you can talk about House for 5 minutes and it's interesting.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Takeaway: It's a good point that as an exercise, take other movies or books and pitch them out loud.<span style=""> </span>You need to learn to make it succinct + compelling.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">----------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: My film is Grey, a scifi horror film about a NYC cop who moves to the country and after mysterious disappearances and deaths it looks like he has a mystery.<span style=""> </span>It's out as a graphic novel [he has the GN with him as a prop], we have distribution deals etc.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: That's fine that you put the book out, but you don't have to hold it up the whole time, it's kind of weird.<span style=""> </span>And Grey is a boring title.<span style=""> </span>And there's another movie called Grey just made, a werewolf thing with Liam Neeson, so you might have to change the title.<span style=""> </span>Any time somebody says cops and aliens, that's well-tread territory.<span style=""> </span>The way you were pitching it I didn't get a story, there was a one-liner about the cop and disappearances, but no story.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I'd go deeper into the story.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: So was it aliens or not?<span style=""> </span>Creature feature?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: Yes</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: So it's like predator?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: No, based on the UFology, the grey alien, based on abduction theory, sort of "real".</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: You've written a script?<span style=""> </span>You've made a teaser?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: Yes and yes.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Everybody is doing horror these days, you need a teaser, everybody is doing that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Takeaway; Note how he asked "is this like predator"?<span style=""> </span>You need to be ready to answer questions about "what movie is your film most like?"<span style=""> </span>These are really genre questions - is your movie in a genre of other successful movies?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: [Walks over to the panel] It's 7:33 AM and there's a knock at the door from your significant other's lover.<span style=""> </span>Our project is an African-American dramedy with characters named name1, name2, name3, told from 3 vantage points.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher2: it's a smart, sophisticated drama, based on existing material, growing fan base.<span style=""> </span>Target is multi-ethnic African-American females.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: If you get up like you just did with an executive and walk over to me and approach the buyer, I'd be calling security, you make the buyer very nervous.<span style=""> </span>You have to practice what you did sitting down.<span style=""> </span>I didn't understand the built-in audience stuff, why?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher2: I'm trying to let you know that the audience exists for the film.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Why does the audience exist for this movie?<span style=""> </span>You said there's a built-in niche audience for this story and I say why, what did she just say?<span style=""> </span>If you say there's a niche audience because of movies like Jumping the Broom, that's different, I get that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Tyler Perry there was a built-in audience, but what you're referring to is an African-American core audience that's underserved.<span style=""> </span>You have a good point but it's how you couch it.<span style=""> </span>As soon as you said you're making an African-American romantic drama with comedic elements, I get it, that's all you need to say, then I'm concerned about what is your story.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: if you come in with 2 people like they just did, you have to choose who will speak.<span style=""> </span>Often people talk over each other and it doesn't help.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Audience Q: Is it distracting to have multiple people pitch?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: No, there are multi-person writing teams.<span style=""> </span>Maybe 1 person does the pitch but if they start to stumble then person #2 helps them out.<span style=""> </span>And sometimes person #2 says nothing.<span style=""> </span>But you don't want to have the "now we cut over to the slow boring guy".</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: black comedy about Hollywood called Poison _____.<span style=""> </span>Comedian insults most of the people at the Oscars and then abuses them at the party, then he ends up dead that night.<span style=""> </span>What will the celebrities do to protect themselves?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: As a general rule, movies about the movies have usually never worked.<span style=""> </span>Our obsession with celebrities is very real.<span style=""> </span>But celebrities generally don't want to play celebrities.<span style=""> </span>Very few films you can point to where you say "that's a great movie about Hollywood" - maybe The Player, that's great, but it wasn't very [financially] successful despite fantastic reviews.<span style=""> </span>You're only going to get B people to play the celebrity.<span style=""> </span>It's not a real movie, I wouldn't buy that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I don't like inside Hollywood stories, but if you want to go with it you need to explain how the characters are accessible.<span style=""> </span>Dangerous to make movies about topics that are very current [??].<span style=""> </span>I just worked on Ides of March, very political, about a campaign, but we're in campaign season now, if people can see the same thing on the news that's in your film, they might just watch the news and not your film. </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Takeaway: I had a hard time understanding the title of her project, was it Poison Soup Days?<span style=""> </span>I don't know - be sure you're clear.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: One technique to deal with nervousness is to point your focus to the listeners.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan the pitcher:<span style=""> </span>Prairie Bones, gripping adventure.<span style=""> </span>Melissa and a runaway slave meet in the middle of the civil war during the night.<span style=""> </span>Melissa helps him fly away.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: which airline?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Susan: on foot.<span style=""> </span>They're on an adventure on the prairie.<span style=""> </span>Could be Dannie Glover paying the slave.<span style=""> </span>[etc. etc]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I have no idea what you're talking about.<span style=""> </span>Train yourself to not use "um" and "er", and you told different parts of the story and I wasn't sure what was happening.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: It's super small.<span style=""> </span>You're creating an uphill battle for yourself when you pitch a story like that.<span style=""> </span>Grab me.<span style=""> </span>Why am I watching a movie about a runaway slave on the prairie, that's a tough sell.<span style=""> </span>Why am I excited about this?<span style=""> </span>It's like the guy with the prosac movie.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: doesn't anybody here want to make some commercial movies?<span style=""> </span>I spent my whole life making art movies but ultimately you have to make movies that make money.<span style=""> </span>Your movie will be extremely hard to sell overseas - it's a Civil War picture.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: takeaway: a verbal pitch is different from written.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">----------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: cross-cultural story about an Indian doctor raised in US, forced to go back to India for her sick father.<span style=""> </span>Romantic comedy.<span style=""> </span>She has to get married to somebody in India, they have candidates lined up for her.<span style=""> </span>Twists and turns.<span style=""> </span>that's the main story.<span style=""> </span>And there's this other character Beatrice who xyz...</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I got the kernel but you could have done that in a simpler way - "it's a fish out of water story [etc]".<span style=""> </span>The way you pitched it, for a comedy, what's the movie poster, what's the concept?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: It's a story about almost every unmarried Indian girl in the US.<span style=""> </span>And every parent trying to push their kids to get married through arranged marriage.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: And you want to make it funny?<span style=""> </span>It's not that funny.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: the funny part is the candidates, they're misfits.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: OK so the poster is the pretty girl on the front with the long line of misfits lined up behind her.<span style=""> </span>But I'm not sure that it's such a funny idea?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: In a lot of the world, arranged marriage is a hard concept to get with, you need something in the plot that drives the premise that a sophisticated female doctor in the US is going to yield to this cultural pressure -- you need something in the plot that drives that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Guy: it's her dying father.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Not enough, you need a stronger driver.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">----------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ron the pitcher: producing a dramatic comedy called Thai Surprise.<span style=""> </span>Victoria has panic attacks and is a Xanax addict, wants to open her own restaurant.<span style=""> </span>Her father dies, her mother disappears after the funeral.<span style=""> </span>Mom turns out to be in Thailand, Victory interferes with mom's peace in Thailand, they have to deal with family secrets, main character learns about Thai cuisine and reconnects with her own sense of joy.<span style=""> </span>At the end of the movie she creates her own restaurant and renews her relationship with her mother.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Small.<span style=""> </span>Really small.<span style=""> </span>Look for places in that pitch, where this is a small idea, to blow it up, spice it.<span style=""> </span>If you're making a movie about cooking or a restaurant then you need madcap or some touching scene.<span style=""> </span>Think My Big Fat Greek Wedding - if you're trying to introduce me to Thai food I need something.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: The biggest problem with cooking movies is that you're doing taste and smell, and you can't do either of those in the theater, so your audience can't participate.<span style=""> </span>I worked on a movie called What's Cooking, the director went on to make Bend it Like Beckham, but it was tricky because you can't sell the food.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Brandon the pitcher: One Amazing Thing, cross-cultural drama by ___ Chittra.<span style=""> </span>Late afternoon in SF office, 9 strangers are applying for visas, there's an earthquake and they're all trapped.<span style=""> </span>One of them challenges each to share one amazing story about their lives.<span style=""> </span>African-American Vietnam vet, retired couple from Pacific Heights.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Is the idea that you tell the stories, or you visualize them as they're told?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Brandon: visualize in flashback.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: so this is episodic, we have 9 different movies.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Brandon the pitcher: Yes, narrow it to 5 might be better since some stories are large.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: depends on the stories.<span style=""> </span>Those types of movies aren't too difficult to finance, with short stories you can fill it up with a group of movie stars since they only have to work for 2 weeks out of your 6-8 week shooting schedule.<span style=""> </span>They're difficult movies to watch since just as one story gets going it ends.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Brandon: What we like about this is can marry US + Indian cinema with actors from both places.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: If you're doing a movie with multiple storylines and you want the movie to have more breakout [commercial success], look at Valentine's Day - you take a concept of multiple stories and back it into a larger universal concept, something most people have culturally.<span style=""> </span>Or weddings.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Audience Q: How do you get the meeting so you can do the pitch?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: that's a complex question.<span style=""> </span>It depends on the person you're trying to meet.<span style=""> </span>If you've never had a screenplay bought, you're not pitching to a studio, they don't have time for you.<span style=""> </span>So you'll be pitching to producers.<span style=""> </span>If you have a small movie like what we've heard today, WRITE THE SCRIPT first, don't pitch just the idea.<span style=""> </span>Then you work with a producer who might take it to a studio.<span style=""> </span>Most of the time they want you to write the script on spec [for free].<span style=""> </span>First step is to find a producer who works in the genre you're writing for.<span style=""> </span>Use your agent or your lawyer or whatever.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">If you're an established writer who has sold scripts before then there's still some sort of dance - your agent doesn't call producers saying "let my writer come in and pitch to you".</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian:<span style=""> </span>the spec screenplay thing has been picking up lately.<span style=""> </span>It used to be that people were writing scripts on spec just to find an agent.<span style=""> </span>You're almost never going to be paid up front to write.<span style=""> </span>But market is picking up because people are saying OK, I want to write something commercially successful.<span style=""> </span>If you have a good commercial idea then you can write the script.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Dramas are hard to sell - hard to set up, hard to finance, they're the best to see but it's hard.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: [Plays to audience: "how many of you have heard of X?" thing.]<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>_Trading Volatility_, action drama about Wall Street and what it does to people.<span style=""> </span>I wrote this as a summary of my 12 years in the trading industry and about how the industry spits you out at the end.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I just saw that movie, it's called Margin Call.<span style=""> </span>Potentially this is a problem for you, that movie is already out.<span style=""> </span>And you can't play the audience like you just did - "raise your hand if X".<span style=""> </span>You said it was an action picture, I expected some AK47's on Wall Street, how is this action?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I don't think you have a story here.<span style=""> </span>Where I thought you were going is that some Wall Street firm had some Inception-like thing where they could figure out people's deepest desires.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I have a better idea, you said this was an action movie, how about the 1% get pissed off and decide to rob the bank where they used to work?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I need to hear more than what sounds like Wall Street, which was nearly a flawless film.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: <span style=""> </span>Takeaway: Issue here is the speaker is personally involved, and if that's the case, as the listener I want some juicy details so that I want to read your script.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: scifi family action adventure comedy [that's a mouthful] movie about an orange elf princess.<span style=""> </span>Escapes and lands on earth and collides with a family that needs the light back in its life.<span style=""> </span>The father is a scientist looking for energy efficiency, and the princess is a renewing energy source.<span style=""> </span>The family has lost their mother so they have a female influence.<span style=""> </span>In the end they defeat the alien bounty hunter.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I think I saw that this morning on Saturday cartoons with my kids.<span style=""> </span>This comes down to execution.<span style=""> </span>I think this is a big growth area for movies.<span style=""> </span>There's something universal about an alien meeting a family - think the old Amblin films, Spielberg [ET]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: bring a visual aid about the orange princess - you get lost trying to think what she looks like.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: we actually have a pitch trailer and you can watch it etc.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: for family movies, mention the age of the main character - it matters.<span style=""> </span>A 14-year-old might not see a movie with an 11-year-old star, but 5-9 year olds will.<span style=""> </span>"Family" movies have a wide range of target audiences and it's a big deal.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: And writing is presently on par with some of the best writing in Hollywood - the stuff even on TV is close to Pixar level.<span style=""> </span>You have to be on top of your game if you're writing for kids.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: scifi post-apoc movie.<span style=""> </span>Surface of Earth is destroyed by the sun, people live underground.<span style=""> </span>Some guy discovers God is dying, God was an alien, and this guy needs to become the new God, defeat the devil.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: You sound so sad pitching it.<span style=""> </span>I feel like I just watched The Road 4 times.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: the moment you say God's an alien, you may be sitting with [pitching to] people who believe in God and they say hang on, I don't want to have anything to do with this.<span style=""> </span>You can finesse it by saying you have this God-like being without taking the hardline religious position that the character IS God.<span style=""> </span>The moment you say "God is an alien" you may get some stepback.<span style=""> </span>But if you say there's an alien creature who is dying who is Godlike, and a devil-like character, then you might be OK.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: Generally this material needs to be branded or a mythology.<span style=""> </span>Pitch me mythology.<span style=""> </span>With scifi, get into the world.<span style=""> </span>Pitch it like a book you just read.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: A lot of studio executives do have ADD, they process based on stuff that's already out there, which is why we have these graphic novels first.<span style=""> </span>My suggestion is to turn this into a graphic novel and say "here, read the GN, it's a great action movie and here's the screenplay."</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: As a former studio executive, definitely I'll say that the people who determine how much money to spend aren't film people.<span style=""> </span>They're totally from a business perspective, and you need to provide evidence that your concept will succeed.<span style=""> </span>The more original it is, the less evidence you have due to lack of precedent for success.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Let me do a quick tutorial on how this business works: When studio makes a film, they go to every department they have: TV, DVD people, foreign business units, and they say here's the idea, the script, and the star, please run some numbers and make a model, based on previous SIMILAR FILMS and similar marketing budgets, what we think the revenue could be in Germany and Japan and everywhere.<span style=""> </span>Every decision is based on a financial decision at the moment that the screenplay package is assembled.<span style=""> </span>This is why sequels are so much easier to sell - the risk is understood and the financial models are already in place.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher1: We have a horror film script and we're happy with it, but we could edit it some.<span style=""> </span>About 4 college kids on a road trip to Cancun and they help a woman being beaten up by her boyfriend.<span style=""> </span>They take her home and party and wake up and one of the friends is gone.<span style=""> </span>They go look for him.<span style=""> </span>The Texas family they're staying with starts behaving weirdly, Latin prayers at dinner, weird stew <span style=""> </span>[I think we can see where this is going].<span style=""> </span>It turns out that everybody in the town is in on the conspiracy, the whole town is a cannibalistic cult.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: I don't know.<span style=""> </span>Totally execution-dependent [one of several unintentional puns made during this particular pitch].<span style=""> </span>Could be a B movie, cannibalism, I don't know.<span style=""> </span>Is there an action chase around the town?<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>Depends on the director and if they've done a similar film.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: We're in that genre, one of the companies we own made 300 horror films over 40 years.<span style=""> </span>For newer horror and suspense films, you have to look for what works.<span style=""> </span>"Found footage" is well understood.<span style=""> </span>Once you get beyond the initial shock of cannibalism, it's not scary, it's just disgusting.<span style=""> </span>You're missing Jason or Freddie, some character to make movie unique, you need that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: The bad one is Lyla, the woman they picked up.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: BTW don't tell me "we really like the script" and don't say "we really like the script but it's not quite ready but we're going to work on it and it's going to get there", don't tell me up front that you're not ready and you need script help.<span style=""> </span>Everybody knows that there are very few BAD scripts that got made into good movies.<span style=""> </span>There are also a lot of GOOD scripts that got made into BAD movies, but almost no bad script ever becomes a good movie.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: embrace the genre, if you're making a horror movie, make a horror movie - you're pitching Fatal Attraction to me there at the end, that doesn't work.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Greg the pitcher: _With This Ring_, romantic comedy.<span style=""> </span>Jacquilyn the young surgeon gets a marriage proposal and the guy presents her with this huge ring and says you can't take it off, but she does during surgery.<span style=""> </span>The ring ends up in the intestines of the evil attorney she just did surgery on, and she has to try to get back.<span style=""> </span>She ends up falling in love with the attorney and leaving the boyfriend.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Good delivery, got main ideas across, not clear what happens at the end.<span style=""> </span>Certainly a movie I haven't seen before, which is a start.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Takeaway: notice that his pace was sufficiently slow and we could take in the details.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Dave the pitcher: _Panic_, suspense thriller.<span style=""> </span>Guy who suffers from panic attacks witnesses a murder and he can't go to the cops and all he can do is panic.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: So... he panics?<span style=""> </span>This is a comedy?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Dave: A suspense thriller.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: Start out saying this is Hitchcock-esque kind of like Vertigo.<span style=""> </span>You haven't explained how the panic works, does it help him or hurt him or what.<span style=""> </span>And what you're saying is funny, but it's not a funny movie, so you're confusing me.<span style=""> </span>Your delivery suggests the film could be unintentionally funny, which you don't want.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: In _Copycat_ Sigourney Weaver couldn't leave her house and that was the hook.<span style=""> </span>Your movie maybe isn't about panic, it's about overcoming panic.<span style=""> </span>And why is panic interesting?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Stephanie: Takeaway: in this delivery, he [Dave the pitcher] has a warm friendly personality, but it doesn't match the genre.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Pitcher: _Short Men Are Better in Bed_, inspirational romantic comedy.<span style=""> </span>[Reading from cards, tooo nervous]<span style=""> </span>Pokes fun at racism, sexism, and short-ism.<span style=""> </span>[various anecdotal snippets]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: You're doing something most people haven't done here much, which is you're pitching individual scenes.<span style=""> </span>You're trying to elaborate in a quick way to show it's a comedy.<span style=""> </span>If you can give me 4-5 moments that are funny or sweet, that's good.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: If you start shaking and are nervous in the room... first of all, don't bring index cards to your pitch, you have to have it in your head.<span style=""> </span>Pitch it to your friends, people you don't know, keep practicing, because the moment will arrive and you have to be ready.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Monty the pitcher: family-oriented fantasy adventure, 13-YO girl goes camping and finds a beautiful rock, brings it back to the trailer park where she lives and it hatches.<span style=""> </span>She has to raise a baby dragon in her park.<span style=""> </span>This is a parallel fantasy world, 1978, analog technology and bad fashion, dragons are real, but everybody believes they're extinct.<span style=""> </span>Dragons are supposed to be bad and evil, but they form a psychic connection.<span style=""> </span>As the dragon grows, she grows.<span style=""> </span>It starts to breathe fire.<span style=""> </span>Girl grows in responsibility and eventually realizes she needs to return the dragon.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Cassian: 1st act is finding it, 2nd act is it become a big dragon, 3rd act is that it belongs back with its family.<span style=""> </span>You dropped your 3rd act into one sentence at the end -- acts 1-2 aren't as interesting.<span style=""> </span>Your listener wants to know what the conflict is - are people trying to kill it, how does she get it back to the dragon family, there's a whole interesting 3rd act.<span style=""> </span>As a buyer I think that could work.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Tobin: I don't think the idea is that great, actually.<span style=""> </span>You're copying How to Train Your Dragon, and they're making a sequel to that by the way.<span style=""> </span>And I don't like the choice of putting it into a fantasy world.<span style=""> </span>Too often people are saying "here's a fantasy world, AND by the way here's an exception".<span style=""> </span>I'd say look, dragons don't exist, it's our world, then this dragon shows up, that's OK.<span style=""> </span>And don't be afraid to change dragon mythology, like the vampire movies have changed vampire mythology these days.<span style=""> </span>You don't have to go with fire breathing.<span style=""> </span>Focus on the relationship between the girl and her dragon.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-11499999551420006122011-11-04T14:05:00.001-07:002011-11-06T15:28:39.476-08:00Friday: Finance panel #2, "Global Infrastructure Opportunities"<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> <w:validateagainstschemas/> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:donotpromoteqf/> <w:lidthemeother>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:lidthemeasian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> 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name="Colorful List Accent 6"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="73" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="19" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Subtle Emphasis"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="21" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Intense Emphasis"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="31" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Subtle Reference"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="32" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Intense Reference"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="33" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Book Title"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="37" name="Bibliography"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="39" qformat="true" name="TOC Heading"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align: center; font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" align="center"><span style="font-size:100%;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br /></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align: center; font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" align="center"><span style="font-size:100%;">Nov 4, 2011: Finance Conference notes part 2<br />11 AM: "Global Infrastructure Opportunities and New Distribution Models"<br />Notes by B. Hahne</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 1 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.</span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!" <span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A. <span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.</span></p><p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">---------------------------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Moderator: Joe Chianese, SVP for Tax, Business Devpt., and Production Planning, Entertainment Partners<br /></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Panelists:<br />- Leon Clarance, CEO, Motion Picture Capital Ltd. UK.<span style=""> </span>Specialty financier, subsidiary of Reliance.<span style=""> </span>$15M to $60M funding range.<br />- Bill Fay, executive producer, was President of Production, Legendary Pictures.<br />- Mary Ann Hughes, VP of Film & TV Production Planning, Walt Disney.<span style=""> </span>Looking for opportunities to reduce costs via incentives + finance.<br />- Bill Johnson, Partner with Inferno Entertainment, sales firm, also does finance.<br />- Andrew Matthews, President RKO Films.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">--------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">[This panel ended up not talking about "new distribution models" because the distribution guy wasn't able to make it.<span style=""> </span>In general this panel was problematic because the panel moderator directed nearly all of his questions to specific individuals, which is boring and doesn't give different opinions, plus he directed the vast majority of the questions to only 3 of the 5 people on the panel, ignoring the one woman for at least the first half of the panel.<span style=""> </span>But don't worry, there's no sexism in this industry, none at all.<span style=""> </span>Hmm.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Leon, what's current state of global financing?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Starting to improve again.<span style=""> </span>Some deals being announced.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: Where's the money today?<span style=""> </span>Asset-rich nations, some wealthy individuals.<span style=""> </span>Wall Street money less present right now, but there are always waves of money coming into this town.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: We're in discussions with a Russian billionaire.<span style=""> </span>High net worth people are always there and the economy hasn't impacted them.<span style=""> </span>Texas oil money, very project-specific, "agenda-driven".</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: what's the profile of a typical equity investor today?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: No such thing as a typical profile.<span style=""> </span>Investors invest for various reason, sometimes financial, sometimes agendas, sometimes building capabilities in their own countries. First step is to understand what they want - if you just think they're there with money then the relationship won't work out.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Investors interested in indy films, slates, what?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Wealthy individuals don't have $500M for a stake in a slate, but they'll do one picture.<span style=""> </span>Or some want to do production companies, or they want to develop local capabilities.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: Understand who your [investor] audience is - if they have $100K it's a different conversation from if they're a corporation with $10M they want to invest.<span style=""> </span>If you're working on your own then you need to focus on your own network of relationships.<span style=""> </span>You might need to attach yourself to an organization to get the network of relationships that you need to organize your project.<span style=""> </span>Producing is like herding squirrels, and if you're working with an organization of 8-9 people who can herd the squirrels for you, that's more workable than doing it solo.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Leon, what about budgets under $15M?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Investor cares about break-even, need to understand this, that's the key determiner for whether to invest.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: What ROI is equity investor looking for?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Need to watch the tax elements of the deal.<span style=""> </span>Investor gains in UK on this type of investment aren't taxed.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: King's Speech made $370M gross on $15M budget.<span style=""> </span>Most of this $15M came from one fund.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Andrew: Is presales market coming back?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: Recovering.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: There are lots of well-capitalized distributors internationally looking for products to compete with the big studio productions.<span style=""> </span>Slick stuff with the production values of big-budget studios are must-haves.<span style=""> </span>The strategy with the other stuff has been to "let it fall to the ground" and try to pick it up as cheap as possible.<span style=""> </span>An experienced sales agent can help you here WRT pricing.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">----</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: "Infrastructure opportunities".<span style=""> </span>Image Nation and Abu Dabhi Film Fund being used a lot.<span style=""> </span>Who is using this and why?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: Image Nation is ostensibly state-sponsored.<span style=""> </span>The joint ventures they've made tend to be message-based, stuff with National Geographic etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Bill F, What opportunities do you look for?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: what studios are in place, what cooperation can we get from the government.<span style=""> </span>We want the right people [in country] on our side.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Can you talk about _Paradise Lost_ done in Australia?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: We had an Australian director so we were able to push this as an Australian production.<span style=""> </span>Then we went with Digital Domain, the SFX company in New S. Wales, wanted to build out its technology there.<span style=""> </span>Paradise Lost is all motion-capture driven.<span style=""> </span>Digital Domain taking an equity stake.<span style=""> </span>Good crews in Australia, now also some of the best FX in the world.<span style=""> </span>We're also shooting in Canada.<span style=""> </span>[This is all Legendary Pictures].<span style=""> </span>Good benefits in Vancouver, Montreal, etc.<span style=""> </span>Countries that follow this are shifting their incentives to track post-production and FX budgets.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: This is a point system in some places, right, like in UK you need 16 out of 32 points?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: Right, and sometimes you need to pad that in case you want to make a last-minute change.<span style=""> </span>But people are definitely analyzing it point by point sometimes - "we'd like to have this DP, but maybe we should really go with this local DP [so that we get the points]".<span style=""> </span>[DP = director of photography]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">-----</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: New Zealand method has been born - Peter Jackson's films have helped this.<span style=""> </span>Countries should consider these incentives - the money spins in the economy with a multiplier effect.<span style=""> </span>Systems weren't previously set up to handle studio productions, they were more for local [in-country?] productions, but if you go into a jurisdiction with a large enough project then you should negotiate with the authorities and see what they can do for you.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: Earlier in my career I found myself chasing incentive percentages.<span style=""> </span>But sometimes it may be cheaper to shoot in Romania with zero incentives compared to chasing a 47% incentive somewhere else.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: And sometimes the cheapest place to make the movie isn't the RIGHT place to make the movie.<span style=""> </span>Government problems, crew sucks, geography sucks, location needs a lot of money to make it look right, etc.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Right, typically producers are running multiple budgets.<span style=""> </span>What about creative control, where you go into a country that doesn't have tested VFX support, etc?<span style=""> </span>10 years ago everybody went to UK for primarily filming but ran back to the US for the VFX.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: Have the government behind you, something that gives you confidence it will work out.<span style=""> </span>On big pictures, a large amount of the movie business is NOT taking place in L.A.<span style=""> </span>The support companies [i.e. VFX et al] are chasing this industry trend.<span style=""> </span>All major companies in L.A., even if we're contracting with an L.A. or California-based VFX firm, aren't having that work done in L.A. to a large extent.<span style=""> </span>There are VFX firms opening up offices in Louisiana to chase the incentives.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: What do you see over the next year?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: Governments have to justify their spend on incentive programs, must show it's wisely spent.<span style=""> </span>Certainly production incentives have been a game-changer in terms of where we send our productions.<span style=""> </span>It's about jobs, for the governments.<span style=""> </span>Louisiana, NY, New Mexico programs have been around for 8+ years.<span style=""> </span>After 8-10 years governments tend to ask for studies to examine whether these programs have achieved their goals - did they create jobs?<span style=""> </span>There will be drilldown and possibly pushback.<span style=""> </span>You should look at the incentives as a partnership with the municipalities.<span style=""> </span>Maybe you need a local education program to train up the locals.<span style=""> </span>I favor doing a postmortem after each one of these productions.<span style=""> </span>In January 2012 we may see some of these programs challenged.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: California Film Office has kept productions here but is competing with Louisiana, Michigan, New Mexico.<span style=""> </span>Michigan put a cap in place under the new governor which limited the # of productions it attracted.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: That was a lot of different states.<span style=""> </span>Louisiana: 2002 they set up the incentive system and at the time had nothing.<span style=""> </span>They now have a crew base and an infrastructure - they have sound stages.<span style=""> </span>You need these to make the program work.<span style=""> </span>I'm heard that they + Georgia + NY are very busy with projects.<span style=""> </span>California is feeling the impact of runaway productions.<span style=""> </span>Even Jerry Brown, with the budget mess, realized we needed a 1-year extension on the California incentive program. Michigan: governor hit the pause button and that had an impact, they lost a lot of productions.<span style=""> </span>But the new, slightly scaled down MI incentive system passed the state senate the other day and is headed for the house.<span style=""> </span>39 states have production incentives and a dozen countries have generous incentives.<span style=""> </span>But at some point some of these jurisdictions might decide to pull out.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: How about states that show support vs. not?<span style=""> </span>New Mexico governor has been hostile.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: Right, certainty matters, uncertainty sucks.<span style=""> </span>NM did keep its 25% incentive with a $50M annual cap, where you can queue up for next year's funds.<span style=""> </span>So NM is back in business, and they have facilities, they have strong crew.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Do you see states coming back, not coming back?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: I'm actually working with Arizona on this right now.<span style=""> </span>They let it expire and I'm working with them on draft legislation now.<span style=""> </span>But can our (LA) film industry really sustain 39 different states all with incentive programs?<span style=""> </span>I don't think there's enough content being filmed that we really need that many programs.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: What risks do producers take when shifting production venue?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: We started to see reduction in incentives just last year for the first time.<span style=""> </span>Prior to that the programs were always growing.<span style=""> </span>Some productions got caught by that.<span style=""> </span>My advice is that you mitigate your risk, and the risk is from potential legislative change.<span style=""> </span>If you're going into production in January when the legislatures come in to session, you could be in trouble - you should be having conversations to defend against your risk that the law changes when you're in the middle of filming in-state.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: What are good jurisdictions right now?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: Foreign countries have proven the ability to have sustainable programs.<span style=""> </span>UK.<span style=""> </span>Canada.<span style=""> </span>Australia.<span style=""> </span>The programs work and they're successful.<span style=""> </span>Newer trend is some jurisdictions focusing on VFX.<span style=""> </span>Australia increased its VFX incentive to 30% but left production incentive at 16.5%.<span style=""> </span>Canada: most provinces have a specific VFX incentive that you can layer on top of the national incentive.<span style=""> </span>Sometimes you can layer 50% incentives by layering national, province, and a separate VFX incentive.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: Exchange rate fluctuations can hit you here too.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: About co-productions, i.e. financial partners in other countries.<span style=""> </span>China, Russia, India.<span style=""> </span>Are these countries impacting your businesses?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Those countries are all very different in their utility to the project.<span style=""> </span>China wants to build its own film infrastructure just like it wants to build its own everything.<span style=""> </span>All 3 of those countries are relevant, and ties into the increasing importance of non-US market for this industry in general.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Bill, what about China?<span style=""> </span>Is the money available for non-Chinese producers to create non-China film products?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: Explosive box office growth influences everything else.<span style=""> </span>China is a very serious market for us (Legendary Pictures).<span style=""> </span>Over time I think this market will "loosen up" - we'll see more scripts approved.<span style=""> </span>Lots of Chinese money from real estate and other businesses now looking to get into the media business.<span style=""> </span>Goal with Legendary here was to do big-budget Legendary-style pictures which were germane to the Chinese market.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: How do the politics of China impact the business?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: The script has to be approved by the government.<span style=""> </span>Not a predictable process.<span style=""> </span>Might be some liberalization at some point.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: There's a lot of money in China looking for projects.<span style=""> </span>We're looking for projects right now that could be partially filmed in China and that will pass censorship.<span style=""> </span>You can't cast Chinese as the villains and you can't be too political.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Re US Federal Govt incentives - incentivizing US jobs.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: Has anybody in this audience successfully accessed federal program X?<span style=""> </span>[1 hand in 500-person audience.]<span style=""> </span>How about program Y?<span style=""> </span>[0 hands]<span style=""> </span>How about program Z?<span style=""> </span>[0 hands]<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">See this is my thesis, which is that these federal programs don't change INDEPENDENT filmmaker behavior, people might want to access them but they can't.<span style=""> </span>These federal programs generally ARE usable by the big studios.<span style=""> </span>The laws suggest that there's willingness at the federal level to support projects, but they should be rewritten to support independents.<span style=""> </span>[There's an interesting 99%/1% commentary to be had here about US federal law being written to support large corporations and not small studios.<span style=""> </span>One might even suspect that the major studios have just a few lobbyists who make sure that the laws are written to benefit themselves and not benefit potential smaller competitors.<span style=""> </span>Please compare and contrast to the U.S. banking industry and submit your 8-page paper by Tuesday...]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: "Russia is the new China" - please comment.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Actually China is the new China.<span style=""> </span>Russia is becoming a source of investment capital.<span style=""> </span>I'm talking to a Russian family office interested in getting into the media space.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Kazakistan, please comment.<span style=""> </span>[Yes he's serious]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: Yes we found some investors there, we're going to shoot part of Arabian Nights there, also partly shoot it in China.<span style=""> </span>Lots of oil and rare earths in Kazakistan, so there's money.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: India, please comment.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Local market in India is booming.<span style=""> </span>A lot of post-production work is also shifting to India.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Latin America and incentives.<span style=""> </span>Can we see this location as a source of funding or other?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: Brazil, some money going into projects in Brazil that can be shot in Brazil.<span style=""> </span>There's a new fund that started which will even engage in development [pre-production?] with you if your film can be shot in Brazil.<span style=""> </span>Development money is normally hard to find.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: It mirrors the general economy.<span style=""> </span>BRIC nations are doing OK and there are funds there to support productions.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Europe, please comment.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: UK "enterprise investment scheme", some politics with EU central government, some changes to the law.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: New distribution models.<span style=""> </span>VOD / Universal / Tower Heist fiasco.<span style=""> </span>Are the distribution models changing?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew M: Companies that do alternative programming are trying to develop alternative channels.<span style=""> </span>Day-and-date releases don't seem to have reached the point where the deals are effective for everybody.<span style=""> </span>Resistance on exhibitor [movie theater] side to digital releases.<span style=""> </span>But indy films don't necessarily need a 3000-screen release like the studios do.<span style=""> </span>People can experiment in the indy space and let it migrate into the studio space.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: What's driving distribution, the customer or the producer?<span style=""> </span>Viacom is trying to cut out the middleman with direct streaming of Transformers - doing it themselves.<span style=""> </span>Do consumers want this or is Viacom just doing it?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew M: Barriers to digital distribution are coming down, so the major studios are likely to start distributing their own products.<span style=""> </span>Consumer demand drives everything.<span style=""> </span>Consumers want time and place independence.<span style=""> </span>The middleman is no longer required due to technology.<span style=""> </span>What's missing right now is a content aggregator that has the consumer go directly to the studio for the purchase.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: For each panelist, please give us your advice to the audience.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Leon: Know your customer, which isn't necessarily the content consumer.<span style=""> </span>If you're looking for investment money then your customer is your investor.<span style=""> </span>A Texas oil billionaire has different wants from some other type of investor.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: Careful analysis of worldwide incentives + availability.<span style=""> </span>It's very rare that a major movie is made without substantial incentives today.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: To get the incentives you need to watch closely, watch for draft legislation.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: You're selling ideas, focus on ideas.<span style=""> </span>[?? I don't think that advice is general enough, could you be even more nebulous please?]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: It [the ecosystem / economy] is getting better.<span style=""> </span>Slowly, but getting better.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------------------------</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q&A time!</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">[As with the first panel of the day, many of the questioners were in jeans and seemed to be looking for ways to fund their sub-$1M budget film.<span style=""> </span>The panel isn't really equipped to answer questions in that space, nor were they equipped to answer questions about alternate distribution mechanisms such as the ever-popular "how can I monetize just over the internet?", or variations on same.]</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Andrew M, how viable are hedge funds for $15M to $20M indy funding?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: they're largely out of the market.<span style=""> </span>Looking at distressed asset deals now which will give them much higher returns than funding a film.<span style=""> </span>A lot of them got badly burned in slate transactions from a few years ago.<span style=""> </span>You might be able to get them with their 5% "alternate investment allocation" portion of their portfolios, but pretty tough.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: If we came to you looking for money, what would make you all give us a meeting?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: It's all about the script.<span style=""> </span>We can't sit down with everybody with a script, of course.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: You missed Africa including S. Africa, why?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: We're looking at ZA for a project</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: The trades have announced that the studios have committed to the cloud for future distribution.<span style=""> </span>Can you comment on microbudget filmmaker and how they can use the cloud to distribute film?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: In general the market for small films is tough.<span style=""> </span>If you're channel-flipping, why would somebody stop on your film, what gets their attention?<span style=""> </span>It comes back to the idea.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Re incentives, how about I have a film with one US character and one UK character, which country do I film in?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: You have to analyze the whole project, not just the incentives.<span style=""> </span>How much you spend on your lead actor can influence which jurisdiction you film in.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Mary Ann: You don't know until you run the budget.<span style=""> </span>We often run budgets for 4-6 locations.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Andrew: You need a good line producer with experience at this, who can run the different incentives and knows the crew costs in different locations.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: How to finance non-traditional filmmaking techniques, are there incentives?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">JC: Read the Entertainment Partners guidebook that was on your chair.<span style=""> </span>The high-level answer is that there are all types of incentives.<span style=""> </span>If there aren't, then it boils down to "will this create jobs?"</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill F: Re mocap + smart studios + etc, there are venues seeking to subsidize these types of productions.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: I'm working towards a $2M film funded with private equity funds.<span style=""> </span>I feel that I should get some foreign presales, but that's very linked to the casting.<span style=""> </span>How can I find out the foreign presales value of different cast members?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">A: You need a good sales agent, talk to your agent.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What factors determine whether a project becomes a must-have?</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Bill J: Put on your distributor hat and think about who is the audience, how does your film compete with studio product?<span style=""> </span>Genres that work include action, thriller, romance, romcom, scifi.<span style=""> </span>Watch box office results, watch the competitive landscape.</span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p style="font-family: trebuchet ms;font-family:times new roman;" class="MsoNoSpacing" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2461980684681773294.post-38861226578094912682011-11-04T13:00:00.000-07:002011-11-06T15:27:40.559-08:00Friday: Finance panel #1, "Current issues"<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>Normal</w:View> <w:zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:trackmoves/> <w:trackformatting/> <w:punctuationkerning/> <w:validateagainstschemas/> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:donotpromoteqf/> <w:lidthemeother>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:lidthemeasian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables/> <w:snaptogridincell/> <w:wraptextwithpunct/> <w:useasianbreakrules/> <w:dontgrowautofit/> 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<w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="19" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Subtle Emphasis"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="21" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Intense Emphasis"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="31" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Subtle Reference"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="32" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Intense Reference"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="33" semihidden="false" unhidewhenused="false" qformat="true" name="Book Title"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="37" name="Bibliography"> <w:lsdexception locked="false" priority="39" qformat="true" name="TOC Heading"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align: center;font-family:times new roman;" align="center"><span style="font-size:100%;">American Film Market 2011 conference: unofficial notes<br />Nov 4, 2011: Finance Conference notes part 1<br />9 AM: "Current Issues in the Production, Financing and Distribution of Independent Film"<br />Notes by B. Hahne</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">The original blog location of these notes is: http://2011afm.blogspot.com<br />This is day 1 of a 5-day series, check back at the blog for more as the days go by.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Clarifications or pithy comments by the note-taker will generally appear in [square brackets like this].</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">These notes are copyright (c) 2011 by Bruce Hahne.<span style=""> </span>Noncommercial, nonprofit redistribution and/or pointing people to the blog is permitted and encouraged.</span></p><p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Disclaimers: "Free notes, you get what you pay for!" <span style=""> </span>There notes are a summary, not a transcript, and represent my best effort to capture the panel discussion plus Q&A. <span style=""> </span>They also probably contain errors.<span style=""> </span>I'm not in the film industry, nor am I affiliated with AFM / American Film Market or with any of the firms associated with the panelists.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Panel:</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Moderator: Steve Fayne, Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Panelists:<br />- Robert Hayward, COO, Summit Entertainment (major independent studio - Twilight and StepUp series)<br />- Patrick Russo, Principal, The Salter Group (entertainment law / finance)<br />- Doug Hansen, President, Endgame Entertainment (P&A firm)<span style=""> </span>MBA: UCLA<br />- Ashok Amritraj, Producer / Executive producer of >300 films.<span style=""> </span>CEO of Hyde Park Entertainment, "India's ambassador to Hollywood"<br />- Jared Underwood, SVP and Group Manager for Entertainment, Comerica.<span style=""> </span>Specialty finance group which has financed 800 films "with zero losses".<span style=""> </span>Twilight, Gods & Monsters...<span style=""> </span>MBA from USC.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----------------------------------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: We just closed a small independent film with 33 separate sources of finance, which was insane.<span style=""> </span>The senior debt closed 2 days AFTER principle photography was done, so making payroll was a day to day scramble.<span style=""> </span>Is this where we are post-2008, is it this hard to finance independent film?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: 33 sources is excessive, though it tells me there's a lot of ways to finance a film.<span style=""> </span>Tax credits, merchandising, subsidies, product placement, split up the rights, etc.<span style=""> </span>If you need 33 forms of finance then maybe you need to ask if you want to be making movies... but if it's your only way then maybe you have to do it.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Used to be able to finance a film directly out of presales, can you do this today?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: That's not happening anymore.<span style=""> </span>Buyers are sophisticated.<span style=""> </span>Every movie needs some presales, some "soft money", some equity.<span style=""> </span>If you think you can just play with other people's money and not put up any equity, you're mistaken.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick to audience: how many people here are independent producers?<span style=""> </span>[many hands]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">How many of you would do your film even if you had to get 33 sources of funds?<span style=""> </span>[same number of hands]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: I still don't think you can fund just through presales, you need equity.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: Agree.<span style=""> </span>But if you have a good film with some stars in it then the presales market is still good IMHO.<span style=""> </span>You won't need as much other funding.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: There are still sources who can finance these films: Lions Gate, Relativity Media, some high-wealth individuals.<span style=""> </span>It's about having the right project.<span style=""> </span>Our concern with one deal we're doing is there are too many sources of financing attached - it's a pain to work through all those deals.<span style=""> </span>Also I agree the presale market is healthy right now.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: The problem isn't money, the problem is quality content.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">----</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: With decline of DVD market and rise of digital distribution of films, where is this going?<span style=""> </span>How do we get digital revenue that might not be there yet, and how do we shift away from film prints to digital for cinematic distribution?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: We're seeing a dropoff in TV from foreign buyers.<span style=""> </span>Seeing decline of DVD, that's continuing this year.<span style=""> </span>VOD uptick.<span style=""> </span>Subscription VOD is coming - that's exciting.<span style=""> </span>VOD has different cost structures compared to traditional rental.<span style=""> </span>One iTunes turn is worth 3 turns at Blockbuster for us.<span style=""> </span>Some territories are going largely theatrical: Korea, Spain.<span style=""> </span>Presale still strong, various territories are going into overages [this is good] and making money.<span style=""> </span>In terms of killing physical 35mm film, now you have "virtual print fees" which are more expensive than printing to 35mm film, so no savings at this point.<span style=""> </span>And if you're playing on 3 screens in one multiplex then you need to pay your virtual print fees 3x.<span style=""> </span>Essentially here we're paying off the conversion costs of the theaters - maybe this will go away in 10 years.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: BTW Robert is the only guy who ever got an overage from Mongolia.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Yeah we couldn't decide if we should cash the check or frame it.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: People tend to treat DVD performance as a proxy for overall film performance, which is wrong.<span style=""> </span>N. America, total home entertainment (most broad category): $12.3B, down only 2.1% compared to last year. <span style=""> </span>Sell-thru is down 13% and that includes electronic sell-thru.<span style=""> </span>Blu-ray up 58% Q3.<span style=""> </span>The drag down is traditional DVD, consumers aren't buying them, they're buying Blu-rays.<span style=""> </span>Rental is up 4 or 5%.<span style=""> </span>Digital in all forms up 32%, $2.2B, driven by subscriptions/streaming.<span style=""> </span>So you need to look at the elements of the industry.<span style=""> </span>Rightholders are actively managing their rights to track changes in consumer behavior.<span style=""> </span>We've seen a slight UPtick in average ultimate returns ("ultimates") recently.<span style=""> </span>You have to track what the consumer wants.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: So you're comfortable with the situation?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: we forecast and we track what's going on, lots of moving parts.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: The banks are still nervous.<span style=""> </span>More conservative view.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: large institutional capital: lots of interest and activity in OWNING content, particularly in last 12-18 months, volume of deals, M&A activity.<span style=""> </span>Longer-term investors believe there's longer-term value in owning content.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: Buyers are buying bulk libraries, things like 10K titles at once.<span style=""> </span>The issue isn't "I want this particular film to be seen", it's "we want the library".</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: current situation somewhat similar to late 1990's growth of non-US distribution, with electronic distribution.<span style=""> </span>We have a client with $0 electronic distro last year, this year it's $3M, next year projected $6M and $3M of that is already in place.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Does the electronic distribution impact windows further out, like cable?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: Too early to tell.<span style=""> </span>The studios traditionally want to frontload the revenues, push the commodity stuff like Redbox out to as late as possible.<span style=""> </span>How will broadcasters react to content that's been sold in so many other venues first before it hits the broadcasters?<span style=""> </span>Different bcasters are taking different position.<span style=""> </span>Some take a hard line, but some love to say "first time on TV!"<span style=""> </span>Strategic chess game.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Window complications.<span style=""> </span>Huge issue with HBO about what we can do pre-window, post-window, etc.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: How about exhibitor pushback for premium VOD?<span style=""> </span>[Tower Heist fiasco - see the news]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: We're staying out of that.<span style=""> </span>We should support the exhibitors [movie theaters], don't want to sabotage this, it's a big market.<span style=""> </span>60-day window shift for premium VOD I thought that makes no sense, who's going to pay $30 for premium VOD if I can wait 30 more days and get the regular product.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: In the past each technology advance was fought by the industry - Betamax etc.<span style=""> </span>Yet today each advance seems to be greeted with open arms<span style=""> </span>[Oh really?<span style=""> </span>Anybody looked at how content owners blocked the ability of Google TV to play a wide variety of internet-resident content in 2010?]<span style=""> </span>Have we gone too far?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: Don't think so.<span style=""> </span>Movies are costing more and people are looking for more revenue streams, so trying to figure out the electronic revenue.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: If there's a new way to watch a movie then people are going to try it.<span style=""> </span>The question is whether the content owners will support that.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: The studios have learned from the music industry: you can't restrict consumer access to the content.<span style=""> </span>If the studios don't evolve with human behavior, then consumers will steal it, which is what happened with music industry.<span style=""> </span>People want to interact differently, don't want to be told when, where, how.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: DVD vs. VOD.<span style=""> </span>With Twilight we did both on the same date and saw no cannibalization.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: So if the industry stays up with the technology curve, we won't go away?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Peer2peer is still an issue - Spain used to be 5%, now it's down to 3% because people are getting content [for free] over the internet.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: Most of us have no direct relationships with our customers.<span style=""> </span>But NetFlix does.<span style=""> </span>As you move towards that relationship, you can make more money.<span style=""> </span>There are interesting 1-on-1 relationships from a marketing standpoint that can come out of the internet.<span style=""> </span>With cable companies all of us here are never in a retail position.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: Piracy affects us in a lot of ways.<span style=""> </span>Locks, keys, then people crack the locks.<span style=""> </span>It's changing how early we send out films for dubbing, scheduling, lots of timing issues, it's a big deal.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Breaking Dawn is going out in 2 weeks and there's dubbing, censorship approval, it's all over the place, and if one copy gets on the internet it's a big problem.<span style=""> </span>We're spending a fortune to monitor the internet.<span style=""> </span>In some countries we have people physically tasked with protecting the content, physical guards.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Most US productions these days seem heavily reliant on state tax credits.<span style=""> </span>Many of these are going away due to state finances being in disarray.<span style=""> </span>How comfortable are you with this shift?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: We haven't been in a situation yet where we don't get grandfathered.<span style=""> </span>We're still lending against rebates etc; still viable.<span style=""> </span>And you'll always have governments getting into this space.<span style=""> </span>When they do the programs effectively it works, it stimulates the economy.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: We use the programs that are tested and work.<span style=""> </span>We spend a lot of time in Louisiana for this reason - it's been around for a long time. In UK they change the rules all the time, but they tend to grandfather [existing players?].<span style=""> </span>It's just part of your risk analysis, just like asking which distributor you're comfortable with.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: We've shot in a lot of states, N. Carolina, Louisiana, got one of the last checks out of Michigan.<span style=""> </span>In some places it keeps getting trickier and you have to worry.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Mostly you negotiate locally, like Miami: "we're going to shoot here, we want the money set aside for us, we don't want to be in a bidding war with Warner Bros 4 months from now when we come in to shoot".</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: What markets are going to work?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: high-end indy films.<span style=""> </span>First 2 days here at AFM have been great.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: Yeah well the first 2 days here everybody usually says it's fantastic, lots of confidence.<span style=""> </span>We tend to play in the realm of $20M with big stars, and that's strong.<span style=""> </span>There's not that much of that product here compared to Cannes.<span style=""> </span>That's actually good for the people here since it means people like me need to fight for the good content that IS here.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: We need to talk about advertising, the "A" in P&A.<span style=""> </span>People are focusing on theatrical, and advertising costs going UP despite a down market, down economy, advertising rates going up.<span style=""> </span>So higher-end movies attracting a lot of attention.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: I had one guy a few years ago say "even the guys who aren't going to pay you aren't buying" [ha]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">-----</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: We want to see some of these indy films succeed each year - King's Speech, Black Swan.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Star salaries have gone down - have you seen a reduction in budgets?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: Certain category of star salaries have gone down.<span style=""> </span>AAA stars not down.<span style=""> </span>Mid-level of stars are more open to deals now, or the agents are more realistic about the star value now.<span style=""> </span>And the agents are putting movies together also so they see the values.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Not much drop for the 15 top actors.<span style=""> </span>But we're seeing shifts in "pre-break gross" threshold - that's going away.<span style=""> </span>That's where you pay the star even if you aren't making money.<span style=""> </span>Moving towards "true cash break" - you start sharing money after you start making a decent return.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: Availability of stars is slightly better since fewer films being made, for 2nd-tier people, not the top 15 stars.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: On the revenue side the dollar is weak WRT the Euro and that helps sales.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Jared, as a banker, what's the current situation in the Eurozone, even if you're paid in dollars it's still Euros underneath.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: We're nervous, but we're bankers, we're always nervous.<span style=""> </span>Starting 18 months ago we thought we'd see a lot of defaults, but so far not so much.<span style=""> </span>Current situation is a rollercoaster.<span style=""> </span>If you're in sales you're probably hearing "times are tough, we can't pay that much", but you'll always hear that in sales.<span style=""> </span>Need to make sure your deals are structured properly.<span style=""> </span>We presold something to Greece and people were worried, but we discussed - it was only $100K and they put $20K down, and we weren't lending much against that, so OK.<span style=""> </span>There's always something going wrong somewhere in the world so you have to deal with it.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Re US vs. non-US:</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: Currently seems like it's non-US that's going up rather than US going down.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: People used to be willing to put up $20M as a US rights guarantee, but now it's down to $12M, so the amount of $ people are willing to put up against an independent is dropping.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Doug, what's your sweet spot for a bridge loan?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: It's opportunistic.<span style=""> </span>Is there a takeout, is there solid financial underpinning, looking for 4-10 weeks, is there a bridge to the other side? <span style=""> </span>It can't be a "pier loan" where it falls into the ocean in the middle, that's not a bridge!</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Many lenders in this business have pulled out in the past few years.<span style=""> </span>Who is coming back or who are new entrants?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: 35-40 banks at height of market.<span style=""> </span>Then 10-12 left in 2008-9.<span style=""> </span>In past 12 months we've seen ~6 new entrants - same bankers, now at different banks [ha].<span style=""> </span>There's enough liquidity to get most deals done - no capacity issues like a few years back.<span style=""> </span>If you run out of capacity then you can go for senior debt with the institutional market.<span style=""> </span>I get calls all the time from our banks saying "do you have anything for me?"</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: You're not near the peak of 35-40 lenders, not as much structured finance.<span style=""> </span>Actually I think that's positive for the industry - fewer films being made, less competition every weekend in the theaters.<span style=""> </span>Reshuffling of senior lender debt - people are going to new banks.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Hollywood has a history of fleecing investors - "we take your money and we go away" (and you don't get your money back).</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: the equity in the independent market we've seen has come from individuals funding individual films.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: Private equity and hedge funds are MIA right now in terms of new money.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: The exception is we have a deal with ImageNation, owned out of Abu Dhabi, and BTW at the end of the day everything in Abu Dhabi is owned by one guy.<span style=""> </span>Specific types of investors.<span style=""> </span>If you can stop fleecing investors then there might be money there.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Well, we aren't going to turn down the money if it's there - look at all those independents in the audience, they'll take your money.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: We had a glut of "broken theatrical films" a few years ago - lots of films sold as if they were going to be theatrically released but they never made it.<span style=""> </span>Is this happening again?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: The money isn't there for that right now.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Agree.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: The agencies are catering to the high net worth individual now, and they've learned that if you screw them, gosh, they don't come back, so maybe we should try to keep these guys around instead of fleecing them.<span style=""> </span>That's a big mental shift for some of these sales agencies [ha].</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: Big institutional money hasn't come back to 2007 levels.<span style=""> </span>Lots of buzz around family offices [high net worth individuals / families], also around China / Chinese investment.<span style=""> </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: Doug, why don't you have more competition in the P&A space?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: P&A fund - we just announced a $150M fund.<span style=""> </span>Structuring is a trick.<span style=""> </span>Everybody has a different opinion about what P&A is.<span style=""> </span>It's actually a mix of investment types, senior, subordinated, and equity, and it turns out that you can't really tell what type it was until the film is released.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: We do a bit of single-picture P&A lending.<span style=""> </span>But good movies don't lack for P&A.<span style=""> </span>For the marginal movies it's easy to get burned (lending to them).</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: We spend a lot of time working with firms about where to spend their P&A - you need to study the analytics, it's not simple.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: 10 years ago it was hard to lose on P&A but now you can do it.<span style=""> </span>But in a slate situation it's better, hard to lose.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: What trends are we seeing in finance? </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: More restrained.<span style=""> </span>Banks returning to tried & true structures: loan against presales, loan against a film ultimate, maybe loan for P&A.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: From producer standoint, need to be more passionate about your material.<span style=""> </span>It's important to make high-end festival films.<span style=""> </span>For all the producers out there, focus on your material.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: Not a lot of Mezz funding these days, not many players.<span style=""> </span>Today if you've got the stuff then you're sold out already, there's no [funding] gap.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: WSJ this morning had another article about Google over-the-top platform launch, they're launching 15 channels on day 1.<span style=""> </span>Powerful and stable companies launching platforms.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: The recurring theme seems to be at the end of the day, you need equity [financing].<span style=""> </span>Where do you get it?<span style=""> </span>High net worth individuals?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Well we do that.<span style=""> </span>Lions Gate does it.<span style=""> </span>There are players, plenty of sources for equity.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: One of my assistants once observed that the harder it was to close a deal, the less successful the film was.<span style=""> </span>Is this true?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Yes.<span style=""> </span>If there's a kernel of something on the page [script] then we'll take on the project.<span style=""> </span>But when you start mishmashing the European tour into the mix - we have to shoot X days in Spain, Y days elsewhere, to pick up the tax credits, it gets really hard.<span style=""> </span>And you can get these complex structures with hierarchies of lenders, it's a mess.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: In a perfect world, what would you like to see to make your lives easy as finance people?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: More direct way to market to individuals, I want to have a way to market to them.<span style=""> </span>Right now we just blast advertising all over the place.<span style=""> </span>It's weird that we don't know our customer - we don't know who the huge Bruce Willis fans are.<span style=""> </span>In my dream world we have a more direct relationship with our customers.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: Lower advertising rates.<span style=""> </span>Lower virtual print fees.<span style=""> </span>More coordinated VOD efforts to replace DVD.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: We want the Japanese to go back to funding movies for 10%, ad costs down, stars take less money, ponies for everybody, etc.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">---------</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q&A time!</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">[In general I noticed a trend here for the Friday finance conference, which is that the panelists are working on projects in the $15M to $60M or $60M++ range and are wearing suits, while everybody who comes to the microphone is wearing jeans and is a small-budget filmmaker with a budget of $1M or less.<span style=""> </span>Big disconnect here between what the audience needs and what they got from the panel.<span style=""> </span>This pattern was true both for the 9 AM session and for the 11 AM session.]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: The panel doesn't really represent the kind of films that this audience makes.<span style=""> </span>Can you speak to microbudget films, $500K to $1M, with no-name casts, how can you fund and distribute these films?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: You need a lot of equity, you're not going to get presales in most cases.<span style=""> </span>You need subsidies and a pile of equity.<span style=""> </span>Banks aren't going to loan to you without presales.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Ashok: Well are you making Paranormal Activity?<span style=""> </span>How do you explain your movie to people.<span style=""> </span>Every distributor in every country needs you to say who are you making this movie for?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Doug: Sundance and other submissions are high, 2K to 3K submissions, films ARE getting made on smaller budgets.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Re platforms and digital, do you see a day when filmmakers will make their money on the $2.99 iTunes download or whatever?<span style=""> </span>Is this the future?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Patrick: Part of the future.<span style=""> </span>There's a new platform every day.<span style=""> </span>At a $2.99 pricepoint if you're making a $50M film you're probably going to lose money.<span style=""> </span>Electronic sellthru is still evolving, right now it's still mostly iTunes.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: How do you get enough of the population to download your movie, that's the challenge.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: Re "skin in the game", what do you mean, and can you speak about crowdfunding?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Jared: "skin in the game" means equity.<span style=""> </span>Crowdfunding, we're not involved in that today, those tend to be small and microbudget films.</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">SF: As a lawyer, crowdfunding scares me - you've got people putting up money and not being given the types of information that investors normally get.<span style=""> </span>[I think he's confused about the legal terms for crowdfunding, which in the U.S. don't involve an equity stake by the crowdfunders.<span style=""> </span>Kickstarter supposedly has worked this through their lawyers, though who knows, lawsuits can always happen.]</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: BTW get your screenplay in shape before you start looking for funding!</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Q: What do you mean by "film ultimate(s)"?</span></p> <p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family:times new roman;"><span style="font-size:100%;">Robert: True cash results including all media, you subtract these 50 different costs and you hope that the resulting figure isn't red.<span style=""> </span>Usually looked at over 10 years.<span style=""> </span>Another term is "residuals".<span style=""> </span>We start running estimates of ultimates early in the game.<span style=""> </span>Once you're in theatrical release, you generally know by the second Monday how you're going to do in that market, AND in all international markets.<br /></span></p>Brucehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778422629718278471noreply@blogger.com0